Our Moral Decay Will bear A Bitter Fruit Indeed..

[Drummond]

Having seen a few 'altercations' in different threads, mostly with another poster that appears to be Muslim, and reading the remarks to linked stories some make when starting a thread, it doesn't seem 'facts' are always the top priority. But I have only seem a few posters that do it over and over. So it doesn't appear (from an outsiders view) to be any different than most other forums. I am anxious to see more posters interacting, as some (like Abbey in this thread) seem to offer actual discussion.

-- You jest .. ?

If you mean the Muslim poster I think you do .. and it's rather hard to see how you can't ! .. then I suggest you review the apparent 'survey' that you've done of other threads involving said poster. You will find, again and again, challenges made that are GROUNDED in fact. Such as, to take an example, the non-peaceful nature of Islam. In the past 24 hours or so, for example, a particularly meritorious listing of Koranic quotes has been posted showing example after example of the hate-filled and hate-inducing nature of Islam itself, some positively warlike.

The poster you must have in mind insists that Muslims pursuing terrorism who say they are inspired by Islam and acting in the furtherance of it cannot actually be Muslims at all. Yet, contrary evidence exists, and has very recently been offered.

May I suggest that you observe the activities involving said poster a little more objectively.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
Arbo's further FAIL regarding Mithra...

Oh my, a religious organization that is standing up for itself and saying it has nothing to do with previous religions. That's about as unbiased as something could be.

Interesting how you completely ignore the fact you never posted links to your 'sources', as required by board policy.

[Arbo]

-- You jest .. ?

If you mean the Muslim poster I think you do .. and it's rather hard to see how you can't ! .. then I suggest you review the apparent 'survey' that you've done of other threads involving said poster. You will find, again and again, challenges made that are GROUNDED in fact. Such as, to take an example, the non-peaceful nature of Islam. In the past 24 hours or so, for example, a particularly meritorious listing of Koranic quotes has been posted showing example after example of the hate-filled and hate-inducing nature of Islam itself, some positively warlike.

The poster you must have in mind insists that Muslims pursuing terrorism who say they are inspired by Islam and acting in the furtherance of it cannot actually be Muslims at all. Yet, contrary evidence exists, and has very recently been offered.

May I suggest that you observe the activities involving said poster a little more objectively.

I wasn't interested in the whole 'your religion is more violent than mine ever was' discussion. Not enough to pay much attention.

But how many Muslims are there in the world, and how many commit violent acts? I honestly ask as I don't know. I know any religious text can be 'abused', and most have throughout history. Not making excuses as I believe all terrorist minded folks should be rounded up in one spot and nuked off the face of the planet.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

When it comes to you telling a lie, the 'we' is you and I. As you needed to tell it in order to get the ball rolling down the hill of dishonesty.

Do you run on and on like this forever? As it is beyond boring already.

Please drop the gay crap, there is no you and I .... BORING WOULD BE YOUR ATHEISTIC PROTEST AND ZEST TO REFUTE CHRISTIANS'S BELIEFS .. if there is no God why are you so interested in refuting a lie? Are you so caring that it hurts? Get a clue hombre, I've faced a few dozen that took your same path and to tell you the truth it does bore me.. Step up your game a tad if you can. I fully expect you simply can not.. -Tyr

[Drummond]

I wasn't interested in the whole 'your religion is more violent than mine ever was' discussion. Not enough to pay much attention.

But how many Muslims are there in the world, and how many commit violent acts? I honestly ask as I don't know. I know any religious text can be 'abused', and most have throughout history. Not making excuses as I believe all terrorist minded folks should be rounded up in one spot and nuked off the face of the planet.

You'd rather deal with symptoms, then, than make any real attempt to tackle a disease at its source ?

'All terrorist minded folks' .. meaning .. what ? Terrorists themselves ? Those predisposed to joining a group ? Those harbouring 'terrorist thoughts' ? Those who'd willingly be terrorist enablers ?

I grant you, terrorists known to be such need to be dealt with. On that point, we apparently share agreement. Nonetheless, the very nature of the enemy ALSO needs to be recognised, the magnitude of the problem likewise, so that the proper and sustained confrontation doesn't fizzle out like a damp squib.

America saw its '9/11'. Britain saw its '7'7'. These attacks, though not forgotten, also lose their impact in the minds' eye over time. With no conscious understanding of what those attacks stemmed from, or no real caring as to what more they signify .. then, history may one day repeat itself .. I say, AVOIDABLY.

The more obviously militant of Muslims have ambitions for the furtherance of their creed. People such as Anjem Choudary, who openly declare their wish to see Islam rule Mankind in every country. Choudary wants universal Sharia Law, and the death of democracy. He's been interviewed stating that he expects America to become dominated by Sharia. I suggest this: Islam is easily the most aggressive faith this world has ever seen, and - by whatever creeping degrees it's brought about - the direction it takes is a remorseless one. It DOES advance in countries where Muslim communities take hold. It DOES demand greater, and ever greater, capitulations to it on every level that can be arranged.

I ask: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH ?

It isn't enough just to trim away at the outer edges of the problem by dealing with symptoms. The War on Terror should NEVER slacken, not until the single conscious thought penetrates all Muslim minds .. dreams of ideological conquest WILL FAIL.

I further ask: how is lack of consciousness of the nature of democracy's enemies at all helpful in rebutting their perniciousness ?

Think on that.

[Arbo]

You'd rather deal with symptoms, then, than make any real attempt to tackle a disease at its source ?

What is your solution? Ban Islam?

America saw its '9/11'. Britain saw its '7'7'. These attacks, though not forgotten, also lose their impact in the minds' eye over time. With no conscious understanding of what those attacks stemmed from, or no real caring as to what more they signify .. then, history may one day repeat itself .. I say, AVOIDABLY.

History WILL repeat itself. It is only a matter of when.

BTW, I have gone nowhere, I just turned off some worthless noise.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

-- Didn't last long, did you ?

How 'sad' ...

I made this post ,his next reply was to run.

Please drop the gay crap, there is no you and I .... BORING WOULD BE YOUR ATHEISTIC PROTEST AND ZEST TO REFUTE CHRISTIANS'S BELIEFS .. if there is no God why are you so interested in refuting a lie? Are you so caring that it hurts? Get a clue hombre, I've faced a few dozen that took your same path and to tell you the truth it does bore me.. Step up your game a tad if you can. I fully expect you simply can not.. -Tyr

He is not the first to run from me and damn sure will not be the last. When they can not even start to score against you they run after trumping up an excuse. I said that he/she(?) would run and now it has. The first attack came from him where he decided rather than face me he'd just summarily dismiss me as a useless poster. Not only a weak excuse but one based upon enormous arrogance too. As if he is some godlike authority on the quality of the members here. My guess is this person is young and full of self to the point of being obnoxious. Not really sad , more like expected! Marcus appears to have this person figured out and Kat suggested its a troll not worthy of anybody's attention but I gave the benefit of the doubt only to find out she was right and the first to see it. Very smart and has woman's intuition as well. I predict this joker will now flip back and forth in his remarks trying to please certain members . Already saw the start of just that. Time will tell big D, TIME WILL TELL. --Tyr

[Drummond]

What is your solution? Ban Islam?

Don't be absurd. Goals need to be evidently attainable.

With much sustained effort taking an appreciable extent of time ... what you'd ideally do is teach ambitious Islamists that their dream of world domination cannot progress. So, you teach them a series of lessons designed to demoralise them.

What you DON'T do is follow the Obama method of alternately displaying weakness, followed by actions which give the worst of them an outright advantage !!! Such as, declaring your troop withdrawal plans PUBLICLY, YEARS IN ADVANCE !! OR, TAKING ACTIONS WHICH WILL AID TERRORISTS DIRECTLY (such as the Syrian situation).

History WILL repeat itself. It is only a matter of when.

Translation: give up, sufficiently so, so as to hand innocent people some future death sentences.

That may be your 'solution'. IT IS NOT MINE.

[Arbo]

With much sustained effort taking an appreciable extent of time ... what you'd ideally do is teach ambitious Islamists that their dream of world domination cannot progress. So, you teach them a series of lessons designed to demoralise them.

Because extremist Islamists are so well known for learning lessons from the west?

You realize how silly that sounds? Hey, let's just teach them they can't have their way!

Bombing the crap out of them hasn't taught them a thing. And you give them too much credit in terms of the intelligence need to learn such a lesson. We are talking about people so backwards they don't even belong in modern times, they should have died out long ago due to their own stupidity.

Translation: give up, sufficiently so, so as to hand innocent people some future death sentences.

That may be your 'solution'. IT IS NOT MINE.

Your translation is incorrect. History will always repeat itself, because humans are STUPID. We have never learned from the past, and we keep doing the same dumb crap over and over. It is inevitable that there will be more terrorist attacks and we will not be able to stop them.

It has nothing to do with giving up, it has to do with being realistic. Those that think they are safe and secure become complacent, and then they get blown up.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Because extremist Islamists are so well known for learning lessons from the west?

You realize how silly that sounds? Hey, let's just teach them they can't have their way!

Bombing the crap out of them hasn't taught them a thing. .



Your translation is incorrect. History will always repeat itself, because humans are STUPID. We have never learned from the past, and we keep doing the same dumb crap over and over. It is inevitable that there will be more terrorist attacks and we will not be able to stop them.

It has nothing to do with giving up, it has to do with being realistic. Those that think they are safe and secure become complacent, and then they get blown up.

Sure thing, lets teach them they CAN have their way. And lets not bomb them instead lets let them keep bombing anybody they want and reap the benefit from more terror! That's the ticket, teach we can not stop them so we must embrace them. You haven't figured out they only give two choices ! Submit or die. Not too much room in that for your nuances and appeasing suggestions. History has repeatedly shown that when people talk when they should have fought they become dead and soon defeated. --Tyr

[Gaffer]

Well, I certainly never told you to shut up, let alone to STFU. Not my style. I welcome debate and other opinions. What I personally do not like, are sweeping condescending statements, especially right off the bat. But you are not being silenced either way.

Every once in awhile, we get a new member who seems to be here primarily to attack Christianity in particular. It's really not all that hard to see it when that is going on. If that is not your agenda, great.

I often wonder why non-believers feel such a strong urge to convince others to not believe in God. If you really think about it, very few people try to proselytize others. And if that is true, why not live and let live? Our member Gaffer is a good example of someone who does that very well. (And I don't think a bad experience in someone's past justifies a continual need to go at strangers for their beliefs. At some point we all need to move on).

Was reading through up to here and I think I will make a comment. I am one that doesn't believe in religion. But I also respect those that do believe. And I NEVER insult their beliefs or act condescending. Well maybe a little bit with muslims. I agree with your point that you don't have to be religious to be moral. But the point is made and ends there. Saying someones belief is fantasy and mythology does not enhance your point in any way.

Tyr was totally correct in his OP. This country is going down the tubes because of morals. Those morals have to come from somewhere. If religion is the source, that's fine. Once someone has acquired morals then they can look more closely at where the morals come from. While I don't believe as many here do, I do learn from them. You might do better to listen, learn and keep your opinions of their beliefs to yourself.

Other than when it involves politics or events I don't see where an atheist has any business discussing religion, other than as a recruitment tool like queers do. Arbo, are you here to proselytize?

[jimnyc]

I have cleaned up this thread and moved the posts cluttering us up to this new one in the "cage" - http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...-Decay-decayed

I didn't pick out any posts, nor any specific members. I tried to start where things got a little personal and anything else that seemed off topic.

[Arbo]

You might do better to listen, learn and keep your opinions of their beliefs to yourself.

No offense, but that is pretty damn funny. Considering how many strike out at the beliefs of others in various threads.

[Drummond]

Because extremist Islamists are so well known for learning lessons from the west?

You realize how silly that sounds? Hey, let's just teach them they can't have their way!

It's a whole lot better than LETTING THEM have everything their way !

And bombing Al Qaeda in Afghanistan did teach them a lesson. They lost a lot of their members due to said members being blown to bits. Those that did survive took years to rebuild. In fact they were forced to rethink their entire organisational structure and strategy because of it.

Point me to another equivalent of '9/11', Arbo, that Al Qaeda has attempted since 2001 !! You know that you can't ...

Bombing the crap out of them hasn't taught them a thing.

I think I just showed you otherwise. Besides, it's not as though their enemies are in the habit of meting out such bombings, is it ? No .... if they've learned anything, it's that many in the West have lacked the resolve, or backbone, to KEEP UP THE MOMENTUM.

Teaching a lesson means that you TEACH IT, not just pontificate about it.

And you give them too much credit in terms of the intelligence need to learn such a lesson. We are talking about people so backwards they don't even belong in modern times, they should have died out long ago due to their own stupidity.

They may not be ultra-modern. But to dismiss Muslim terrorists, or such belligerents, as 'backwards' is dangerously naive. You're telling me that no Jihadist websites exist ? That no interest has ever been shown, or considered, by these 'backwards types' in acquiring WMD's ?

Closing your mind to dangerous possibilities just because you prefer to think that way, makes no sense.

Your translation is incorrect. History will always repeat itself, because humans are STUPID. We have never learned from the past, and we keep doing the same dumb crap over and over. It is inevitable that there will be more terrorist attacks and we will not be able to stop them.

Because you say so ?

For as long as people think as YOU SAY THEY MUST, perhaps. But to take a different, more proactive line, one more determined to FIGHT ONE'S ENEMIES ... that's the sane way to proceed.

[Arbo]

It's a whole lot better than LETTING THEM have everything their way !

Nobody is letting them.

I think I just showed you otherwise.

If your post is the standard of 'showing' something, the standard is just about non-existant.

Really, the rest of your post doesn't even dignify a response, it is empty headed rhetoric. Keep on thinking that another attack will never happen, that history will not repeat itself, but no crying when the next one happens.