While i agree that the church has historically been wrong in the way they handled suck sin, by displaying suck disdain with an unwillingness to address suck issues as Homosexuality they pushed people away, instead the church should admit that those are for what ever reason a real desire for some, and the church should be prepared to welcome those, now im not suggesting that the church should accept there open behavior, but accept them and support them as none practicing Gays, deserving of the same love and respect as the rest of the sinners in the church. I don't think that people are born that way, but i do believe there is a host of situations that can cause a weakness for it, i know God could deliver a person from it, but it may be their cross to bare, as it has been a temptation for man sense Biblical times, evident by the Bibles need to warn against it. As for swing the doors open wide, it depends on what that means?
Isaiah 5:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
I have been ridiculed for saying that i believe the Great Church in Revelations that will have it wrong will be the Catholic church because they will change to suit the present society, i could be wrong some think it will be some new movement like Scientology ect. "Just my opinion not meant to offend"
Christian Democrat has become an oxymoron
God's mercy is ever present and eternal, known as our Savior Jesus Christ. Not sure why the Pope felt the need to strike the rock when the bible tells all that needs to be told. Love the sinner but not the sin is a standard in Christianity but inclusiveness should never include turning a blind eye to the way of life of some of the groups he sent the message to IMHO. And if that's the true intent of the message he sent then the Catholic Church will be in for a world of hurt and punishment. None escape the justice affirmed in the principles given in the bible.-Tyr
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
I know it's shocking, but the 'headlines' may be a tad misleading. If anyone is actually interested, here's the entire interview, 11k words:
http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
I wasn't disagreeing, Rev.
As for the church being "less judgmental", as Jim quoted above, it really depends what form that takes. If it means being welcoming but honest and clear about what the Bible teaches, in the hope that such people will turn away from sin, that's a good thing. If it means being wishy-washy about it, just so people will like the church more and feel more comfortable sinning, that's worse than doing nothing at all. Well, except for the church's coffers. They would improve.
After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown
“Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
-Abbey
By the current Pope, from Kath's quoted article, and I would agree. But we must not lose our way in actually getting to part 2:
But the proclamation of the saving love of God comes before moral and religious imperatives. Today sometimes it seems that the opposite order is prevailing.
After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown
“Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
-Abbey
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
And their is no mercy without sin. I mean, impossible by Catholic doctrine as it is, would a person without sin need God's mercy? No, of course not. Homosexuality is still a sin, just as having any sex that is not in the missionary position for the sole purpose of having babies is considered a sin by the church. And there's no hierarchy of sins here, they both fall under Lust, one of the 7 cardinal sins.
It's sort of impossible to call people to the Grace of God when they're constantly being berated, and this is an issue I've seen in my friends, where they a lot of times forget I'm catholic because I'm not harping about stuff. One of my friends routinely slaps down Christians as a whole, and I finally got sick of turning the other cheek, "Really, I'm an asshole?"
"Well, no, I mean, you're not a real Christian."
I admit it- I gave in to wrath. There was a solid ten minute section of time that was just me going off on things like hypocrisy, broad strokes painting, and how the true fake Christians are the ones using Jesus to fuel hate. Like, people who sit there with those "GOD HATES FAGS" signs, or who kill abortion clinic doctors, they're not Christians, cause God doesn't hate anyone. He hates murder, He hates rape, but He doesn't hate murderers and rapists.
"Government screws up everything. If government says black, you can bet it's white. If government says sit still for your safety, you'd better run for your life!"
--Wayne Allyn Root
www.rootforamerica.com
www.FairTax.org
"..just as having any sex that is not in the missionary position for the sole purpose of having babies is considered a sin by the church..."
Not any church i've been a member of. just saying. that line is not from the Bible.
the Bible says what the married couple do in the bedroom is their own biz.
The Pope might want to move back from the position you described. if that really the RC teaching nowadays.
As far as the Christians reputation for berating before the mercy goes. well I suppose some of that is deserved . you mention a few groups of nuts. but have you meet many/any Christian that do what your friend describes as "Christian". espescailly since he doesn't consider you one.
None of the Churches I've attended have marched around with signs or attack people the way you describe. Have Christians fought in the courts to keep homosexual marriage illegal? Yes. Is that calling names? hypocritical? Is it Hate? or just trying to maintain a legal moral standard?
the homosexual groups say if we don't agree with their view of sex then we are hateful. If that's the case then I guess many Christian will just have to live with the label. Even though Many if Not MOST have never called a homosexual a name or killed an abortion doctor.
My point is that that there's an area where there is no compromise. and it's not built on hate. the murderer is not asking that we accept his murders as a "lifestyle" and make it legal and teach it in school as normal. The murderers need/have God's love available as much as anyone. And His hand is outstretched as ours should be as fellow sinners, but should we hire unrepentant murders as priest and pastors?
from the 1st post
"Pope Francis has warned that the Roman Catholic Church could lose its way if it focuses too much on enforcing rules against contraception, abortion and homosexuality, instead of throwing open its doors and making the church more merciful.
In a candid interview with an Italian Jesuit magazine, Francis also reiterated conciliatory comments he made this summer about not judging gay people.
"A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality,” he told La Civilta Cattolica. “I replied with another question: 'Tell me, when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?'"
lets change the sin
'Tell me, when God looks at a Murderer, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?'"
I agree. the answer is of course, God loves that person.
my 1st questions still stand though. What does that mean in practice?
Last edited by revelarts; 09-21-2013 at 02:36 PM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16