"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
Your neighbor buys a cannon , puts it in his back yard pointed directly at your house. Are you going to rest easy hoping its never loaded or he is never loaded playing around with it? What if that neighbor has proven to be shady and very untrustworthy, going to rest even easier ?
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
fj and logroller .... if this treaty is nothing to be concerned about, why did Kerry sign it? I may be wrong, but I think one of you or both of you assured me a few months ago that this treaty would never be signed, and now it is.
Last edited by SassyLady; 09-27-2013 at 09:47 PM.
If the freedom of speech is taken away
then dumb and silent we may be led,
like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.
Wilson signed the ceremonial copy, not the actual treaty. Without ratification of 2/3 Senate, US is not bound:
http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history...-1919-and-1921
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
A treaty that has no chance of ratification is not a gun, it's not even your neighbor making a gun gesture with his hands.
Because liberal. It's nothing to be concerned about because it's not going anywhere. BO can't even get his majority now let alone 67 votes to ratify a treaty.
Last edited by fj1200; 09-28-2013 at 06:02 AM.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
10 treaties the U.S. hasn't ratified
Just as every other unsigned treaty "points to an out of touch and ffed up government under 'insert POTUS name' control."
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
Well I didn't check them all but that's certainly the premise, are you saying that they were not? And I'm just trying to quantify all the other times where we've had signed, but not ratified, treaties pointing to an "out of touch" government.
I think my stated premise when I take my seat in the Senate will be to vote against any treaty that could be interpreted to mandate behavior on citizens within our borders.
Last edited by fj1200; 09-29-2013 at 01:01 PM.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
Not bound indeed. My point is that, in failing to ratify the treaty, the act of signing became ceremonial; conversely had it been ratified, the treaty would be binding and not be merely ceremonial.
From the August 24, 1921 'actual' treaty provided by consent of congress and approved by the president
http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/...ty_austria.htmarticle I
Austria undertakes to accord to the United States and the United States shall have and enjoy all the rights, privileges, indemnities, reparations or advantages specified in the aforesaid Joint Resolution of the Congress of the United States of July 2, 1921, including all the rights and advantages stipulated for the benefit of the United States in the Treaty of St. Germain-en-Laye which the United States shall fully enjoy notwithstanding the fact that such Treaty has not been ratified by the United States. The United States in availing itself of the rights and advantages stipulated in the provisions of that Treaty, will do so in a manner consistent with the rights accorded to Austria under such provisions.
i see no mention of the aforementioned treaty of st germain-en-laye's 'ceremonial' nature. It pretty much says we signed it but its not been ratified, but we liked these parts, we'll keep those, these other parts (see article II), no.
So, given the absence of congressional resolution and presidential approval to make such a treaty binding, Kerry signing the ATT is no less ceremonial in effect.
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99
Yea, its not Obama would act upon it as if it were signed and ratified , right? I mean look at how well he abides by the U.S. Constitution for that. He just chooses which laws he likes and has those enforced, the others ffkk Congress and the American citizens. Still amazes me how many supposedly smart people completely ignore his actions so far in doing as he pleases. I guess star struck went to a whole new level when that bastard showed up. Which is sickening to any that have integrity and honor in this nation. Those that don't matter to me like an ant I may step on while on a sidewalk stroll. --Tyr
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
If this treaty is nothing to be concerned of why did Obama just hours ( when he should of been partying ) of winning the election get in touch with those to get the ball rolling ?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...ts-un-gun-grabReuters reports that within hours of his securing his reelection, President Obama ordered the U.S. United Nations delegation to vote in favor of a UN proposal to fast track an international gun control treaty.
Immediately the word went out that the United States was going to play ball (after having scuttled the last round of talks on the Arms Trade Treaty in July), and a new round of negotiations on the treaty was scheduled for March 18-28 at the UN headquarters in New York City.
A press release was sent out early Wednesday morning from the United Nations General Assembly’s First Committee proclaiming the good news of President Obama’s go-ahead for the gun grab and setting the agenda for the next gun control conference:
Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up
Too late to set up a tee time perhaps. Then again, maybe its all part of the geopolitical nature of the executive to negotiate with foreign nations on such matters. Either way, administrative powers of the executive branch are nonetheless subject to constitutional scrutiny. So what if foreign nations jump about shouting hurray for green-shirt day, until someone gets penalized for wearing a blue shirt its just political bloviating.
I don't seek to minimize the threat such treaties pose to our freedoms but, if one was to prioritize such threats, I'd say there's actual legislation on the books in full force, like the patriot act, state gun control laws, etc that demand more attention. Losing sight of this is easy to do amidst the smoke and mirrors of politics. I'm not so easily disillusioned.
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99
Because politics?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...21107?irpc=932U.N. delegates and gun control activists have complained that talks collapsed in July largely because Obama feared attacks from Republican rival Mitt Romney if his administration was seen as supporting the pact, a charge Washington denies.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho