Hamas legitimate?

[Gunny]

Yes, red herring. So now that you've declared them illegitimate... Now what?

You're asking ME?

I'd blow 'em off the map. But then, we already KNOW I'm quite the diplomat.

I don't have to declare them illegitimate. History already proves it. They're Arabs. No such thing as a "Palestinian". They were called Phillistines back in the day and they got their asses kicked. That's the way it was. So why is it, this one place (besides the indians in Minnesota that want their damned land back) different from the rest of the world?

I'm curious here. You think there's no God behind this? The Jews lost what they had when they sold out to the pharisees. They paid. Bigtime. Holocaust? Yet no one's ever kicked their asses in battle except themselves. Coincidence?

And I'm not Jewish, btw. Southern Baptist,

[fj1200]

You're asking ME?

I'd blow 'em off the map. But then, we already KNOW I'm quite the diplomat.

I don't have to declare them illegitimate. History already proves it. They're Arabs. No such thing as a "Palestinian". They were called Phillistines back in the day and they got their asses kicked. That's the way it was. So why is it, this one place (besides the indians in Minnesota that want their damned land back) different from the rest of the world?

I'm curious here. You think there's no God behind this? The Jews lost what they had when they sold out to the pharisees. They paid. Bigtime. Holocaust? Yet no one's ever kicked their asses in battle except themselves. Coincidence?

And I'm not Jewish, btw. Southern Baptist,

You'd blow them off the map including all the innocent civilians that have been subjugated by Hamas? And the rest of your post would seem to validate my contention that the question is a red herring designed to validate one's own position.

[Gunny]

You'd blow them off the map including all the innocent civilians that have been subjugated by Hamas? And the rest of your post would seem to validate my contention that the question is a red herring designed to validate one's own position.

Nah. I'd tell them what I told you. You're Arabs. You can travel freely in every Arab state. So why are you demanding one of the most worthless pieces of land there is in the ME? There's NOTHING there worth fighting over.

The red herring is those trying to blame it on Israel. They aren't starting shit. They finish in damned good fashion though. Trying to make an international terrorist organization a legitimate government? Really? They're murderers and scum. I'd feel more guilt shooting a rabid dog. The dog doesn't know any better.

[NightTrain]

I'm curious here. You think there's no God behind this? The Jews lost what they had when they sold out to the pharisees. They paid. Bigtime. Holocaust? Yet no one's ever kicked their asses in battle except themselves. Coincidence?

And I'm not Jewish, btw. Southern Baptist,

I've been saying the same thing for years... and I was raised Baptist.

Anyone that has any doubt as to who's side God is on can simply look at the results of battle after the dust settles. Against overwhelming odds Israel has performed mind-blowing victories with staggeringly few losses.

[fj1200]

Nah. I'd tell them what I told you. You're Arabs. You can travel freely in every Arab state. So why are you demanding one of the most worthless pieces of land there is in the ME? There's NOTHING there worth fighting over.

The red herring is those trying to blame it on Israel. They aren't starting shit. They finish in damned good fashion though. Trying to make an international terrorist organization a legitimate government? Really? They're murderers and scum. I'd feel more guilt shooting a rabid dog. The dog doesn't know any better.

And your legitimacy in telling them what to do is greater than that of Hamas? But believe it or not I'm pretty sure that there are some people who actually live there and don't want to go some place else. But my question doesn't really concern Hamas, they've made themselves targets no question. My question concerns those who have been subjugated by an illegitimate group.

[Drummond]

And your legitimacy in telling them what to do is greater than that of Hamas? But believe it or not I'm pretty sure that there are some people who actually live there and don't want to go some place else. But my question doesn't really concern Hamas, they've made themselves targets no question. My question concerns those who have been subjugated by an illegitimate group.

You're assuming mass subjugation. I am not.

I do feel sorry for the children caught up in all this .. those not old enough to have an opinion. As for everyone else, well, ARE they victims, or are they behind Hamas in all it does ? Many voted Hamas into power. More are willing to have their kids turned into human bombs. Yet more shield Hamas from Israeli targeting.

Those firing the rockets .. how many are Hamas 'people', and how many are willing helpers ?

And I tell you this. Of all the interviews I've seen screened of Gazans, NOT ONE has voiced even so much as CRITICISM of Hamas - indeed, one woman said she didn't used to be a Hamas supporter, but IS one, now.

Given the choice between living in rubble, with more bombing likely, and being without electricity for (as is estimated) A YEAR, and, going elsewhere, free of bombs, free of insanitary conditions, with amenities available ... who would choose the first set of options ? Other than a Hamas supporter, that is ..

[fj1200]

You're assuming mass subjugation. I am not.

I do feel sorry for the children caught up in all this .. those not old enough to have an opinion. As for everyone else, well, ARE they victims, or are they behind Hamas in all it does ? Many voted Hamas into power. More are willing to have their kids turned into human bombs. Yet more shield Hamas from Israeli targeting.

Those firing the rockets .. how many are Hamas 'people', and how many are willing helpers ?

And I tell you this. Of all the interviews I've seen screened of Gazans, NOT ONE has voiced even so much as CRITICISM of Hamas - indeed, one woman said she didn't used to be a Hamas supporter, but IS one, now.

Given the choice between living in rubble, with more bombing likely, and being without electricity for (as is estimated) A YEAR, and, going elsewhere, free of bombs, free of insanitary conditions, with amenities available ... who would choose the first set of options ? Other than a Hamas supporter, that is ..

Then you can't have it both ways, either they are supported and have an air of legitimacy despite your vacant protestations or they aren't supported and aren't legitimate.

[Gunny]

And your legitimacy in telling them what to do is greater than that of Hamas? But believe it or not I'm pretty sure that there are some people who actually live there and don't want to go some place else. But my question doesn't really concern Hamas, they've made themselves targets no question. My question concerns those who have been subjugated by an illegitimate group.

My legitimacy? How about there is right and wrong? Hamas is wrong.

I understand your question. You can't save them.

[aboutime]

My legitimacy? How about there is right and wrong? Hamas is wrong.

I understand your question. You can't save them.

Gunny. I guess now...You and others finally understand why I have labeled 'fj' as "F'n Jerk"??

[fj1200]

My legitimacy? How about there is right and wrong? Hamas is wrong.

I understand your question. You can't save them.

Yes, your legitimacy in telling them where they should live.

[Gunny]

Yes, your legitimacy in telling them where they should live.

Aren't you the one that just called something else a "red herring"? Now, read what I wrote. I'm not telling anyone where to live and your deflection is bullshit. I pointed out a fact. Those Arabs can live anywhere in the ME they want. Instead they choose to wage war on a bunch of civilians over a litter box. And yes, I have been there. You? Didn't think so.

Don't try to tell me what time it is when I'm the one wearing the watch.

If this gets moved to the cage, so be it. I'll still play. You?

[fj1200]

Aren't you the one that just called something else a "red herring"? Now, read what I wrote. I'm not telling anyone where to live and your deflection is bullshit. I pointed out a fact. Those Arabs can live anywhere in the ME they want. Instead they choose to wage war on a bunch of civilians over a litter box. And yes, I have been there. You? Didn't think so.

Don't try to tell me what time it is when I'm the one wearing the watch.

If this gets moved to the cage, so be it. I'll still play. You?

You're Arabs. You can travel freely in every Arab state.

You've been in Gaza? Interesting perspective them I'm sure you have to add. Nevertheless the question is a red herring because it's just people validating their own opinion with absolutely no power to make any difference.

And why would this need to be in the cage other than some anger issues?

[DragonStryk72]

I ask this based on a recent story where Jimmy Carter has stated as much.

Suppose it was Al Qaeda? Does the Palestinians voting them into office now make them legit? Any less of a terror organization? What if they were in Pakistan? Iran? or maybe even America?

Does a terror organization EVER become legitimate? My belief is, once you become such an organized group, and you start murdering people - you can NEVER be legitimate. Not even votes can make it so. Votes don't suddenly make a murderous crew innocent, nor bring back the people they terrorized and killed.

ISIS. Now what if they are voted into office in Iraq? Do we forget what they are doing right now? What about Hezbollah down the road? Islamic State?

I guess what I'm asking is - can a terrorist group EVER be an officially recognized government by other legitimate governments, or should they? My answer is HELL NO!

Well, I'd agree with you, but it's a moot point. The Palestinians got Gaza as a part of a peace treaty with Israel. When HAMAS attacked Israel, they voided that agreement, meaning they obviated their separate state deal. Israel is entirely within their rights to reclaim the land, period.

Maybe HAMAS should try, you know, honoring peace treaties.

[jimnyc]

Nevertheless the question is a red herring because it's just people validating their own opinion with absolutely no power to make any difference.

We offer opinions on subjects here, day in and day out, and 99% of them we have really no power to make a difference. Why with this thread is it somehow people validating their own opinions? Isn't that pretty much in every thread? It's almost like saying that there is no point to the thread, that people are only offering their meaningless opinions - which is kinda what I thought the point was. I honestly have no idea why you've harped on this from page one. Can people not simply offer their opinions on a matter with offering cures to make some sort of difference?

Is Al Qaeda legitimate? I don't offer an opinion yet - as why bother, as I am powerless to make any kind of difference, no?

[logroller]

I ask this based on a recent story where Jimmy Carter has stated as much.

Suppose it was Al Qaeda? Does the Palestinians voting them into office now make them legit? Any less of a terror organization? What if they were in Pakistan? Iran? or maybe even America?

Does a terror organization EVER become legitimate? My belief is, once you become such an organized group, and you start murdering people - you can NEVER be legitimate. Not even votes can make it so. Votes don't suddenly make a murderous crew innocent, nor bring back the people they terrorized and killed.

ISIS. Now what if they are voted into office in Iraq? Do we forget what they are doing right now? What about Hezbollah down the road? Islamic State?

I guess what I'm asking is - can a terrorist group EVER be an officially recognized government by other legitimate governments, or should they? My answer is HELL NO!

It depends on your respect for sovereignty-- if you believe that a sovereign nation is an entity composed of the People, then Hamas/ISIS/Taliban etc are legitimate. Thus, if they're legitimate powers, then you can hold the people accountable for the wrongdoings of their leadership. But if you reject the legitimacy of the organization then you can't, in good conscience, hold the People accountable.