National Cathedral to Host First Muslim Prayer

[jimnyc]

I do not expect you to see, believe or understand unless you are Christian

When you write things like "I don't expect you to understand.." it can come across condescending; a trait a Christian cannot have.

No condescension intended. That was added because I think a large amount of faith is necessary to accept and believe what I was saying. If not Christian that lack of faith would lead one to dismiss a large part of my reasoning IMHO. Added as merely a clarifier my friend.

Just for further clarification - Darin is definitely a Christian. He may not discuss and enter religious topics as much as he used to back in the day, but he's quite knowledgeable about Christianity and the bible. That doesn't mean others don't, as it seems you ALL know more than I do! Was just making sure you guys "knew" one another going forward.

[jimnyc]

That's a good point about the quality of the people. But then again, why do we see conversions happen by seemingly 'normal' people, followed by a desire to go 'Jihadding' in some faraway country they've never before visited ?

So the book matters. It may not be all that matters by any means. But it is important to the process, undoubtedly.

No doubt at all that the book matters. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it didn't matter at all. Of course ANY wording that lends a hand to radicalism can definitely push someone in that direction. But I do think that if someone reads a book and goes radical, they weren't seemingly normal as some may have thought. But I also think generations and generations of radicalism help sway, as well as society as a whole as they know it. But in no way does that absolve the book of its importance. But I suppose my point was similar to violent movies. Many people feel others kill and get violent - because they read violent books or watch violent shows. If that were true I would be a mass serial killer! But it didn't turn me. But now, if my parents were a little off, my neighborhood cheered radicals, my uncle's friend joined al qaeda, society runs on Sharia and all I've ever know was violence, subjugation, murder & hearing radical crap from imams - I may be more susceptible to being radicalized by simply reading. Make sense?

Just realized you were likely referring to someone not Muslim who perhaps read the quran or entries, and left a place like the UK in order to join ISIS, for example. Yeah, that's fucked. I don't have many answers about those folks. I've read a bunch of them stories now. I can 'almost' understand if someone bails to go to Syria and help others - but to do so via joining ISIS?

And for the record - I think once someone joins ISIS, they too become a target. "You are either with us or against us" <----- and joining the enemy surely qualifies as being against us.

[jimnyc]

Apparently it didn't go off without a hitch. I disagree with this woman's actions. These folks were invited here and I don't see where anyone acted inappropriately to deserve such heckling. I understand her stance, but not the heckling.

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Washington Cathedral’s first Muslim prayer service interrupted by heckler

In a corner of Washington National Cathedral, several hundred Muslim worshipers and other invited guests gathered Friday afternoon for a first-ever recitation of weekly Muslim prayers at the iconic Christian sanctuary and to hear leaders of both faiths call for religious unity in the face of extremist violence and hate.

The Arabic call to prayer echoed among the vaulted stone arches and faded away, followed by an impassioned sermon from Ebrahim Rasool, a Muslim scholar who is South Africa’s ambassador to the United States. Rasool called on Muslims, Christians and others to come together and make “common cause” in the fight against extremists who appropriate Islam.

“We come to this cathedral with sensitivity and humility but keenly aware that it is not a time for platitudes, because mischief is threatening the world,” Rasool said. “The challenge for us today is to reconstitute a middle ground of good people . . . whose very existence threatens extremism.”

The event was closed to the public, and there was heavy security, with police checking every name and bag. Organizers from several area Muslim institutions said there had been concerns about security and threats after the event was publicized and that they and cathedral officials wanted to limit it to a small and selected group.

Nevertheless, the carefully scripted ceremony was marred once when one well-dressed, middle-age woman in the audience suddenly rose and began shouting that “America was founded on Christian principles. . . . Leave our church alone!” She was swiftly ushered out by security aides, and the service continued.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...acc_story.html

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just for further clarification - Darin is definitely a Christian. He may not discuss and enter religious topics as much as he used to back in the day, but he's quite knowledgeable about Christianity and the bible. That doesn't mean others don't, as it seems you ALL know more than I do! Was just making sure you guys "knew" one another going forward.

Yes, I was clarifying that my comment he spoke of was in no way intended to be insulting or condescending. Ive never had nor never will have a heated exchange with another Christian. If we interpret bible verses differently its just the way it is..

I will discuss for learning purposes but not ever for demeaning purposes .

My contention that allowing the muslims in has spiritual and Christian/biblical basis. Christians are warned NOT TO DO SO... -Tyr

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/eze008.htm

King James Version: Ezekiel Chapter 8

1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.


2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.


3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.


4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.


5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.


6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.


7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.


8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.


9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.


10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.


11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.


12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.


13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.


14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.


15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.


16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.


17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.


18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.

Verse 16 ,definitely points to the muslims. Other verses in the bible tell not to invite in darkness , etc. -Tyr
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http://www.midwestoutreach.org/mcoij...omment-page-1/

We can be assured the Bible excludes “others” from being sources of truth. Jesus tells us in John 17:17 that “… Thy Word [Bible] is truth.”

In Psalm 119:160, the psalmist wrote, “Thy word is true from the beginning.” The source of truth for mankind is the Bible of Christianity. No other religious text completely agrees with the Bible, where they contradict the Bible, they are not the truth. There is one truth (from God), and there are many false ideas (from men). Truth is exclusive.

Inclusiveness unites all belief systems. It adheres to common ground while ignoring disparity. But, areas of disagreement cannot be overlooked. It is the disagreement that distinguishes truth from error. The “common ground” of love and compassion are now allowing false ideologies to be preached as the “truth of Jesus,” so that even the elect are being deceived (See Matt. 24:24).

All religions living in unity is a farce. “Can two walk together except they be agreed?” (Amos 3:3) There is no unity between contradicting beliefs no matter how long the two pretend to agree with their disagreement. The result of this union only forces Christianity to abdicate principles vital to truth.


Inclusiveness

Salvation from eternal death is available for those who exclusively adhere to the truth of God’s Word in the essentials. But, God will take “vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (2Thess. 1:8) Jesus is the only way to the Father (John 14:6). Sadly, a person who does not believe these narrow/essential teachings will face eternal punishment. This narrowness in the essentials is part of the “simplicity” of the Gospel which Paul feared would be “corrupted” just “as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety.” (2Cor. 11:3)

The new Emergent Christianity—which is now trying to submerge true Christianity—is suggesting to church-goers that Jesus can be found on any path and/or by reading any text. Assured Christians who know there is only one view of truth are being advised to adjust their thinking. Old alleged “assumptions” of truth are being re-evaluated. The new inclusiveness is said to “sweeten what you already believe” giving it “collective strength” gathered from other viewpoints.

However, confusion is the result of believing several viewpoints. Think how contradictory and even fatal it would be for a person to believe several differing viewpoints of gravity. Giving credibility to someone else’s viewpoint just for the sake of peace is really no peace at all if that concession ends in death. It is obvious the only right and true way to approach life, either physically, and especially spiritually, is to approach life truthfully.

On a side note, we must remember Paul’s advice to be “all things to all men.” (1Cor. 9:22) Christians should be the first to relinquish their personal viewpoints if discussing irrelevant opinions. We are to turn our cheek (Matt. 5:39) without defense when we are personally rejected or mistreated. Our opinions in everyday life do not matter as we should please others and yield to their opinions, putting our desires last. But, when truth is at stake, let the sword of truth be unashamedly waved.

[jimnyc]

Yes, I was clarifying that my comment he spoke of was in no way intended to be insulting or condescending. Ive never had nor never will have a heated exchange with another Christian. If we interpret bible verses differently its just the way it is..

I will discuss for learning purposes but not ever for demeaning purposes .

My contention that allowing the muslims in has spiritual and Christian/biblical basis. Christians are warned NOT TO DO SO... -Tyr

All's good! I just wanted to make sure you knew that Darin was a Christian. It sounded like you were unsure as to whether he was or not.

[5stringJeff]

Sorry... I must have missed the lack of mosques in America in general and the DC metro area in particular that forced the Muslims in that city to be forced to use a Christian cathedral for their prayer times. (/sarcasm)

Seriously, though, why is a Christian church opening its doors for a different religion's use? It's plain from any reading of both the Quran and the Bible that the religions are mutually exclusive.

[jimnyc]

Sorry... I must have missed the lack of mosques in America in general and the DC metro area in particular that forced the Muslims in that city to be forced to use a Christian cathedral for their prayer times. (/sarcasm)

Seriously, though, why is a Christian church opening its doors for a different religion's use? It's plain from any reading of both the Quran and the Bible that the religions are mutually exclusive.

Jeff!! Awesome to see a post from you! Every time I see or hear anything about West Point I immediately think of you.

[5stringJeff]

Jeff!! Awesome to see a post from you! Every time I see or hear anything about West Point I immediately think of you.

Thanks Jim! I saw the FB post from Trinity and realized it had been a while since I had popped back in here.

[DLT]

I've seen similar by me, and even attended an "outreach" type of initiative, where folks were welcome to come, break bread and learn. I also have no issue with allowing them to share a prayer with Catholics.

BUT, I have extreme doubt that a single mosque on the entire earth would perform similar as this story. That is, allowing Christians into their mosque to hold their own services. I think it would make huge strides if a few mosques announced similarly and made similar invitations. Maybe pigs will fly and I'll be wrong on this one.

I would advise you not to hold your breath for that to ever happen.