Boy suspended for preaching in school sues

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't understand. Please explain. How does preaching, 'force' a viewpoint on anyone ?

Is any audience to it, somehow required to accept the content 'preached' .. ?

We have a black street preacher here in my town that picks different locations in town each day and stands on the sidewalk shouting Christian scriptures at passing cars as they slowly go by. Nobody bothers him, complains and cops ignore him completely. He stays on the public sidewalk and does his thing. No compulsion on his part as people are free to listen, ignore or even engage if they so chose and thus he is within his rights to free speech..
When one only relays information its not forcing anything, the muslims that Gabby so adores and defends are the ones that use force, compulsion to advance their cult--yet she ignores that fact(1400+ years of murdering to spread). Go figure..--Tyr

[revelarts]

I talked to them about drugs, just as I did religion. Both made the right choices.

I talked to them about sex, though most of the heavy lifting in that discussion was done by their mothers...

Fascism and communism never really came up.

I taught them of the evils of racism...

Perhaps I was to minimal in my description of my discussions with my kids about religion? I was raised in the Catholic church, as my kids grew, I taught them about morals, right and wrong, how treat those around them and those with whom they would come in contact. When asked about religion, I answered their questions to the best of my ability, those questions I could not answer I told them might best be answered by their grandfather, or perhaps they might seek out a person of faith with whom they could have a discussion. My opinion is simply this: religion does not belong in public schools unless it come in the form of a comparative studies class, one that covers all religions. Proselytizing and preaching is best left to street corners and houses of worship.

As for my tolerance, it ends when someone interferes with my ability to raise my family in the manner I feel is best. Having someone attempt to influence my children's beliefs in a public school, well, I take issue...

How about your tolerance? Where does it end? What if the young man in question was preaching from the Quran rather than the Bible? What say you to that?

Ok, i see your position clearer.

As far as my tolrance. I never said i was on certain issues.
But i agree with you about a comparative religions classes. And teachers in a mixed faith setting shouldn't preach to kids.
But students have full freedoms in that area IMO..
As far as my kid going to a public high school where ONE Muslim kid is passing out Qur'an verses and preaching the Qur'an in the halls trying to get converts. Well, I would not ask or expect that the kid to be suspended, that's for sure. As long as he's just peacefully talking he can do it freely in the free time. Even have a Muslim club on campus after school. I wouldn't like it but i don't like the sex talk, the cussing, the drugs and drinking talk either. And I'd hope my kid would be able to verbal handle themselves with a Muslim or Hairy Chrisna or Alien believer or atheist in the OPEN setting of a public school.
But frankly i don't have my kid in public school at all, but in private Christian school. where it's unlikey to happen eventhough one of the christians schools in our area had a few Muslims there because the Muslim parents wanted the more moral Christian POV taught to their kids rather than the atheism and relativism of the public schools. They were respectful of the Christian school and didn't "preach" but did discuss religion with other students.

So Yeah my POV is that we as parent's are responsibe to postiviely point our children to the truth.
But i have no right to muzzle other children from ever talking to mine. Especially if i SEND them into a public setting where they'll meet all kinds of people.

[BoogyMan]

The boy is claiming "religious discrimination." The school claims he was suspended for causing a disturbance.
Doesn't matter if you are preaching the Gospel or arguing about Star Wars, no one is allowed to force their viewpoints on others.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...ng-5902419.php

No-one is allowed to force their viewpoints on others?

Lets see:

8 year old suspended for using "finger gun" while playing cops and robbers
Students suspended for prayer meeting at school
Students suspended for Airsoft gun photo taken AT HOME
Student gets in school suspension for saying "bless you"
Student suspended for growing hair out to make a wig for a cancer survivor

There are tens of thousands more that could be posted here. Now who is forcing a viewpoint? The Marxist dimwits with no common sense that are unfortunately all too numerous in positions of authority in our schools, that is who. These scumbags are crushing the individuality out of kids and pushing a "conform or pay a heavy price" attitude that will see our youth into some very tough times down the road.

Recently in TX and woman was told not to teach her child because the teacher didn't want parents teaching kids anything that might conflict with what they were being taught in the school.

Gabby, you can stuff your "pushing their views on someone" garbage because it isn't the students doing the pushing.

[darin]

um, How do you know who cares to hear that Jesus loves them DMP? are they all just like you?
Just because you don't doesn't mean it's not exactly what others are looking for to get them moving towards a real realization of God love. High school can be a mini h3ll for some kids on or off campus, and many teens are forming their views. I can't say the kid's approach is the best but it may be what some folks need on their journey.
that kid has to have room to grow as well, he'll learn a bit by the reactions , what he does with that is another story.

Its because nobody is looking for a ‘king’ or ‘lord’ – in those terms. Telling somebody Jesus loves them does NOTHING to communicate “love”. Showing – that’s different. That’s where the benefit lays. Forcing, being rude, suing-for-the-right – those things do not show love; they are ego-centric. I am saying the method of the guy in the OP is faulty, and probably pushing people away from a desire to know their creator.

But I say you GO MY YOUNG BROTHER. PREACH IT.
I had a few "friends" trying to get me to try pot and more. I had friends trying to get me to roam the streets at night with guns.
i had NO-one my age telling me about Jesus. I can't think of many who did. It would have been interesting.

Nobody that age truly knows who Jesus is; they know what their church tells them; what the bible tells them – which is such a tiny part of reality to make it…eh?....

DMP your a very nice guy, but I get the impression that if you'd have lived during the time of Jesus you'd 1st be upset with John the Baptist his "harsh" sermons and then be mad at Jesus for not treating people nicer and talking about Hell so much.

You’re ass-backwards there. John preached in a way to communicate God to the people of the time. Nowadays fewer and fewer give two shits about “Warnings of Hell!” Had John been alive today his message would be tailored – centered upon – communicating in a way people responded-to. And christ? Christ would likely chastise the boy in the OP, telling him to chill the fuck out, and work on LOVING people more than demanding a pulpit. And I am a VERY nice guy. And a former Doctrines of the Bible minor while attending an accredited Christian college.

On an nonspiritual level Why not let the kid TALK, it's not going to kill you or them.

Would you feel the same if the boy was reading pornography to the classes? Islamic guidance?


I don’t want the kid to talk – he’s hurting the witness.

You both seem to believe in tolerance of some sort but only tolerate others styles and faith up to a point. then you want them to STHU.

Shutting up when asked by those in authority over us, and those around us is the humble thing to do. Suing is the proud thing to do.

John the baptist was Loud and told people what to do and how to think about God. Jesus did too. saying finally to all "if you've got ears to hear this, then listen."
Teenagers aren't so tender n fragile spiritually that other students will "brainwash" them. If they are drawn to faith in Christ during their teens it's often very real. If they are not, well, they are often not hesitant to tell peers to back off. Or they are "not ready"

He is recorded to have used the words people understood. The language and illustrations people understood. His language today would seem like klingon to most people. Threatening people with hell will NEVER cause them to love God. Threatening people with the image of God as a bully will NEVER cause them to love God.

[revelarts]

Its because nobody is looking for a ‘king’ or ‘lord’ – in those terms. Telling somebody Jesus loves them does NOTHING to communicate “love”. Showing – that’s different. That’s where the benefit lays. Forcing, being rude, suing-for-the-right – those things do not show love; they are ego-centric. I am saying the method of the guy in the OP is faulty, and probably pushing people away from a desire to know their creator.

Nobody that age truly knows who Jesus is; they know what their church tells them; what the bible tells them – which is such a tiny part of reality to make it…eh?....

You’re ass-backwards there. John preached in a way to communicate God to the people of the time. Nowadays fewer and fewer give two shits about “Warnings of Hell!” Had John been alive today his message would be tailored – centered upon – communicating in a way people responded-to. And christ? Christ would likely chastise the boy in the OP, telling him to chill the fuck out, and work on LOVING people more than demanding a pulpit. And I am a VERY nice guy. And a former Doctrines of the Bible minor while attending an accredited Christian college.

Would you feel the same if the boy was reading pornography to the classes? Islamic guidance?

I don’t want the kid to talk – he’s hurting the witness.

Shutting up when asked by those in authority over us, and those around us is the humble thing to do. Suing is the proud thing to do.

He is recorded to have used the words people understood. The language and illustrations people understood. His language today would seem like klingon to most people. Threatening people with hell will NEVER cause them to love God. Threatening people with the image of God as a bully will NEVER cause them to love God.

There's a lot here and it looks like we'll just disagree.
but I'll mention this.

I think people today understand very well what "hell" means. The reason you upset is because you DO know what it means.
I'm not sure why you'd think that people back then liked the idea any better than those today.
There were atheist, skeptics and other religions and philosophies then as now.

And people have been preaching ALL of the Bible for 1000's of years now and people still get meet God and salvation using basically the Same words now as then. I think your INCREDIBLY mistaken in thinking that Jesus's and the apostle's teaching needs updating.

People haven't changed we're all still sinners that need saving DMP. and God is still King.

[darin]

There's a lot here and it looks like we'll just disagree.
but I'll mention this.

I think people today understand very well what "hell" means. The reason you upset is because you DO know what it means.
I'm not sure why you'd think that people back then liked the idea any better than those today.
There were atheist, skeptics and other religions and philosophies then as now.

And people have been preaching ALL of the Bible for 1000's of years now and people still get meet God and salvation using basically the Same words now as then. I think your INCREDIBLY mistaken in thinking that Jesus's and the apostle's teaching needs updating.

People haven't changed we're all still sinners that need saving DMP. and God is still King.

I disagree that we are all sinners; and all the saving has already been done.

[revelarts]

I disagree that we are all sinners; and all the saving has already been done.

"
Psalms
Good and upright is the Lord; Therefore He teaches sinners in the way.
Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, And sinners shall be converted to You.

JESUS
Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples.

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Luke 15:2
And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.”

apostle PETER and JOHN
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

apostle PAUL
Acts 13:38
Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
Acts 26:17-19
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now[a] send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
"


DMP I don't know what the heck you're talking about.

[stevecanuck]

This one's a no-brainer. Preaching has no place in public skuulz.

[darin]

Your first quote proves my points. "Sinners CONVERTED"
Then Christ talks 'repentance' - he talks people from State - "sinner" to ANOTHER state "Non-sinner - those in repentance"

We have 'before' and 'after'. Moving from ONE state to another.

Remission: "the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty"

Cancellation. Sea of Forgetfulness. All that - all those things today's "church" seems to want to ignore in an effort to...I dunno? SCARE people into thinking this 'salvation' thing is tenuous at best; something somebody must continually strive to achieve. Fear mongering. Evil.

I am not "a SINNER!!!!!OMG!!!WTF!!!BBQ!!!1111" because all that shit was/is done with, thanks to God's plan. There is no magical salvation from something UNLESS I BELIEVE THE BIBLE!!! Cuz that was be GOD being kind of a jerk to people; and God is LOVE. God is GRACE - and because of the latter God is completely unfair. He does not "make people PAY!!" for their 'sins'. People pay for their sins here on earth - by missing out on a relationship with the Creator - AND living a less-than life at times.

For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous

The 'many' who were made sinners are the same 'many' made righteous. In this context the literary use of 'many' is to imply 'all man kind' - if it's not used to imply 'all mankind', the implication is not ALL of man kind was made into Sinners through Adam and Eve. If that's the case...uh...fundamental Christianity falls apart.
Further extrapolation implies as many were made sinners - through NO fault, action of themselves, perhaps many were made righteous the same way? That the notion of eternal damnation exists simply to put a chasm between God and his creation? To 'force' people to give the power of connection to the creator to the church to administer?

I am positive Christ would suggest to the kid in the OP "Hey man...stop being a dick. Stop the self righteousness. Stop trying to 'stand up for God'. God is not worried; and to 'take a stand for God' is simply implying God NEEDS you to speak for him. C'mon man. God is much bigger than this situation, AND you're coming off like a pompous dick to thousands, millions perhaps. THAT is not Love."

So - I say: The kid in the OP needs to seriously re-evaluate his heart and his motivations.

"
Psalms
Good and upright is the Lord; Therefore He teaches sinners in the way.
Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, And sinners shall be converted to You.

JESUS
Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples.

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
Luke 15:2
And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them.”

apostle PETER and JOHN
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

apostle PAUL
Acts 13:38
Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;
Acts 26:17-19
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now[a] send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
"


DMP I don't know what the heck you're talking about.

[darin]

This one's a no-brainer. Preaching has no place in public skuulz.

I'm sure you'd feel the same about preaching atheism, the hoax of man-made global warming, and the religion of life "evolving magically from non-life", no?

[tailfins]

I'm sure you'd feel the same about preaching atheism, the hoax of man-made global warming, and the religion of life "evolving magically from non-life", no?

I think he was being sarcastic given the way he spelled skuulz.

[BoogyMan]

I disagree that we are all sinners; and all the saving has already been done.

Even Paul had to take care that even after preaching to others he did not become a cast away.

1 Cor 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

The word matters, DMP.

[revelarts]

DMP, Jesus Said to the Apostles
^”15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. ¹⁶ He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Mark 16:20
And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

Luke 24:
⁴⁶ Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, ⁴⁷ and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

^{Acts 10
34} Then Peter opened his mouth and said:...
⁴⁰ Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, ⁴¹ not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. ⁴² And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. ⁴³ To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
”
I'm not sure how you can just leap over these an assume no one needs or wants to hear any preaching.
Or That there's some universal cleansing of all mankind without hearing and believing in Jesus.