The Growing Phenomenon of Police Shooting Unarmed Citizens

[Anton Chigurh]

why shouldn't these type of cases be talked about.

No one's said they shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be exaggerated or lied about, however.

[revelarts]

I hate Meatloaf

lol!
80% of the time the other meals are not burnt so. I should be happy right.

[revelarts]

No one's said they shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be exaggerated or lied about, however.

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?
any exaggeration over the number of Swat raids Increasing over the past 20 years or the amount of military gear the police have?

[Jeff]

Ok this is about black America but I think you could put this into any race, I don't believe the police are getting worse but the streets and the media reporting things are. I can remember when I was younger if ya wised off to the cops ya got your head thumped ( back then everyone wasn't carrying guns and yes even punks had more respect back in the day for the police than the average citizen does today ) I also believe there have been people getting killed by cops for ever but now it sells, it is a great news story. I don't condone police brutality but I also believe if ya don't do things wrong chances of even speaking to a cop on any given day probably isn't going to happen.

[revelarts]

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?
any exaggeration over the number of Swat raids Increasing over the past 20 years or the amount of military gear the police have?

Plus one of the articles i pulled this quote.

Washington, D.C., which had the nation’s highest rate of police shootings during the 1990s, has cut the rate of shootings dramatically through a combination of training and accountability....
​source

they Acknowledged the problem and dealt with it. As it should
they didn't deny or deflect it and talk about how many cops never use a gun. Or how great cops are in general.
or say stuff like "you must hate cops just for bringing the issue up".

[Anton Chigurh]

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?

No one said any of them were.

[jimnyc]

Which cases above are lies, which are exaggerated?

Here's an issue I have with what one of the articles opened up with:

In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.

Some of the worst people in the world killed some of our troops, and this article states our troops were "killed". The extreme majority of the police cases mentioned didn't even bring charges let alone get convictions, and they refer to the police as murderers. If true - can you (or they I should ask), have a list of the 5000 convictions in the past decade? You get my point...

I understand that some folks are upset with police issues in the past few decades, especially black folks. But downplaying war and using rhetoric to imply ALL of the police involved in shootings are murderers looses me at the beginning. It's difficult for me to continue with an article once I read something like that.

But this doesn't mean I argue with 100% of what you have posted. Some is police misconduct or brutality, and I'm sure some of those 5,000 shootings were legitimate and officers cleared. It's wrong to imply all officer involved killings are murders, just as it would be wrong of anyone to completely dismiss complaints and imply all the conduct by the police that you have posted was OK.

[aboutime]

After attempting to read your last rants, contrived based on your now OBVIOUS hatred.

I am totally convinced. You are no longer worth responding to, nor attempting to communicate with at all.

I do not want to give you any more time here to expose your Blatant Racist Idea's...not even you can hide.

[revelarts]

Here's an issue I have with what one of the articles opened up with:



Some of the worst people in the world killed some of our troops, and this article states our troops were "killed". The extreme majority of the police cases mentioned didn't even bring charges let alone get convictions, and they refer to the police as murderers. If true - can you (or they I should ask), have a list of the 5000 convictions in the past decade? You get my point...

I understand that some folks are upset with police issues in the past few decades, especially black folks. But downplaying war and using rhetoric to imply ALL of the police involved in shootings are murderers looses me at the beginning. It's difficult for me to continue with an article once I read something like that.

But this doesn't mean I argue with 100% of what you have posted. Some is police misconduct or brutality, and I'm sure some of those 5,000 shootings were legitimate and officers cleared. It's wrong to imply all officer involved killings are murders, just as it would be wrong of anyone to completely dismiss complaints and imply all the conduct by the police that you have posted was OK.

Yes that was one of the articles.
of the 5 i posted plus the 7 or 8 refs to video post.

And I see you're point but it's clear the articles purpose is to point out the numbers.
it's main point are the numbers. They are the same as WAR numbers.that's the main take away.
I don't get the impression at all they are try to downplay the war deaths.
I suspect that they've written against war deaths elsewhere.

You've focused on an aspect of an article you think IMPLIES that ALL Police are "killers".
as you often ask me, did the article say that?

IMO you've twisted it in the worse light and taken at great offense. so much so that it's unreadable to you.
IMO i think you're doing it a disservice.

by way of comparison,
others here on the board have posted articles or stated out right that Black people need to be monitored, are "animals", basically all criminals, they have posted racist "jokes" but somehow many think none of that is suppose to imply that anyone is racist in the slightest.

Seems if we were to try to draw implications based on whats written we could come to various conclusions.

[red states rule]

This sums up the double standard and myth about white Police Officers

White Cops Aren't Victimizing Black Youth

Jermaine Jones, 29, was gunned down in the street on the outskirts of Ferguson, Mo., Oct. 18, a few hours after his sister, Margaree Dixson, 35, had been shot half a mile away.


If this is the first you’ve heard about these murders, it’s because their killers also were black.


“Black deaths matter only if the killer is a white cop,” said Italian journalist Enza Ferrerri.


Which doesn’t happen very often. Of 1,265 murder victims in St. Louis between 2003 and 2012, 1,138 (89.9 percent) were black, according to University of Missouri-St. Louis criminologist David Klinger, a former police officer.


About 90 percent of the black decedents (1,025) were slain by other blacks, his research indicates. Thirty-two were killed by police officers, 22 (1.93 percent) by white cops.


Between 1976 and 2011 across the United States, 7,982 blacks were murdered each year, on average — 94 percent by other blacks, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. About 227 blacks (2.8 percent) were shot by police each year, according to a study by Pro Publica (which pointed out that national statistics on police shootings are difficult to assess because of differences in how police departments report them).


The use of excessive force by police isn’t unheard of, so if a consequence of the news media’s obsession with the shooting of Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson Aug. 9 is more widespread use of bodycams by police, that would be good.


But to assert that racially motivated shootings by police are commonplace and that this was one of them undermines the rule of law and “fans racial discord,” said Milwaukee County (Wis.) Sheriff David Clarke, who is black.


Young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot dead by police than are young white males, Pro Publica said. But because more than two-thirds of police officers are white and blacks commit about half of violent crimes, it stands to reason most police shootings would involve a white cop and a black suspect.
Blacks also are more likely than whites, Hispanics or Asians to resist arrest, according to Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute.


Black cops have shot black suspects at essentially the same rate as white cops have, Prof. Klinger’s data indicate. No statistical evidence supports the charge that white cops routinely abuse black suspects. But the question is: Did Officer Wilson use excessive force against Michael Brown?


“What the grand jury had, that the rest of us did not have until the grand jury’s decision was announced, was a set of physical facts that told a story that was independent of what anybody said,” wrote economist Thomas Sowell, who is black. “Moreover, the physical facts were consistent with what a number of black witnesses said under oath, despite expressing fears for their own safety for contradicting what those in the rampaging mobs were saying.”


Despite this, liberal journalists on the “Meet the Press” program last Sunday were aghast when National Review’s Rich Lowry said the lesson of Ferguson was “don’t fight with a policeman when he stops you and try to take his gun.”


Even if Officer Wilson had been wearing a bodycam, it wouldn’t have mattered to journalists “too invested in the white-racism morality play to let facts — even videotaped facts — get in the way,” said Mona Charen of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.


More despicable are those journalists who made excuses for violence after the grand jury refused to indict Officer Wilson for a crime it was clear he didn’t commit. Those who looted (mostly black-owned) businesses and burned down a black church aren’t “protesters” who were “trying to make their voices heard.” They’re criminals.


The victims in Ferguson are the law-abiding people in the majority black community who’ve lost their businesses, their jobs and convenient places to shop due to mob violence. Among their victimizers are the Obama administration and much of the national news media.


“If the history of other communities ravaged by riots in years past is any indication, there are blacks yet unborn who will be paying the price of these riots for years to come,” Mr. Sowell wrote.




Jack Kelly is a columnist for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...th_124882.html

[Jeff]

This sums up the double standard and myth about white Police Officers

If this is the first you’ve heard about these murders, it’s because their killers also were black.


“Black deaths matter only if the killer is a white cop,” said Italian journalist Enza Ferrerri.

This administration has done everything it can do to make race relations between black and white as bad as they possible can and the media is eating it up, the statement above couldn't be more true, most of these so called young black ( innocent ) males that are being killed daily aren't at the hands of the cops but at the hands of other thugs just like themselves ( same color as well ) but nope no riots no looting no threads on DP all because it isn't a white cop shooting a black man. Facts cops kill white criminals as well, Fact if ya rob a store expect cops to get in your face, FACT there is more black on black murders than there is cases of police shooting a black male, but it seems like the media just doesn't want to print the facts any longer

[revelarts]

Sorry folks long winded rant time just so i'm not misunderstood or assume wrong because i don't have my facts.

part 1 of 2

Ok um the thread is primarily about Police being more aggressive, more heavily armed, acting with more impunity legally and generally more re-positioned against everyone today than in the past but, as mentioned, it's been a persistent issues within minority communities.

the above comments about black on black crime come up often, and in this board the idea that Blacks are MORE prone to crime by default ..therefore... has come up as well.

lets step back a minute.

I 've pointed this out before, and it's often seems lost on some of the right.
OK Yes, there's "Black on Black Crime". Far more death's of black youths from that than police. absolutely. no one denies that.
but here's the thing, It's always correctly called CRIME.
whereas when police beat or shoot truly innocent persons or over suspicions or trivial offenses it's to often called "justified", good honest "police work" and the police walk away.
(Of course if you think all blacks deserve to be shot and harassed for nothing or for "bad attitudes" or welfare, or fill in the blank non crime or racial stereotype here then it's always justified to beat/kill blacks)

this is the issue.
it's the justice issue that enflames people. out of proportion? .. maybe. When you're accused falsely over and over how calmly do you react?

But "Black on black" crime is rightly judged --OUT of the GATE-- as wrong by all.
But cops killing black guys is too often considered as if ...' well they got what they had coming... because they are "animals"... and their crime is sooo bad that if innocents are being harassed by police MORE than others it should not be questioned....If a few more blacks kids get beaten/killed by the police well...to bad... they ALL have "bad attitudes" any who ... it should teach "them" a lesson... plus they look like demons...'

When all folks are really looking for is people to look at the issue serious as --- i point out again-- was done in Washington.

end part one.

[Drummond]

Revelarts, it seems to me that you started this thread as a protest against police shooting unarmed people.

This raises three questions for me:-

1. Are police required to be sure that those they combat with a gun are armed themselves ?

2. If 'yes', how do they establish that ? By first being shot THEMSELVES ?

3. Is your real agenda, Revelarts, a bog-standard Leftie one, of forcing police to either abandon firearms, or, to wear them without using them except to defend against being shot at ... AFTER the fact ?????

Comment: guns can be aimed to immobilise, used for that purpose. I suggest that this is no bad thing ..

[revelarts]

Concerning “Black on Black crime”. in general
it’s a horrible a horrible thing and it’s always weird to me that many on the right assume that Blacks are not concerned about it.
But i guess if you just watch the MSM where only blood and conflict lead and solutions to problems are rarely “TOP NEWS TONIGHT”.


But look Every black organization i know of NAACP, SCLC, the Urban League, 100 Black Men org, and many other state, local groups, churches and orgs and projects etc etc Adress the black on Black crime issue they have for decadees.
Even Sharpton and Jackson -for better or worse- have consistently been addressing this issue. They don't get much screen time for that. And and as i said in the previous post
It’s not controversial. It's Tragic.
No Ones claiming that the killings and crimes are “JUSTIFIED”.
when the crooks go to jail people are satisfied that a criminal is off the streets.
but for example of the things being done.

……….
The 30th National Preventing Crime in the Black Community Conference
The Florida Consortium of Urban League Affiliates, along with Derrick Brooks Charities, manage the state's Black-on-Black and Youth Crime Prevention and Intervention grant programs. In 2012 they have joined the Office of the Attorney General as partners in presenting the Preventing Crime in the Black Community conference. We are truly in it together.
The National Conference on Preventing Crime in the Black Community grew out of a partnership between Florida Office of the Attorney General and the Florida Consortium of Urban Leagues Affiliates in 1986 to address Black-on-Black crime.
———————————————————————
Trayvon Martin Save Our Sons, Daughters Conference Kicks Off
The goal of the conference is to find solutions to black-on-black crime. 10/05/2012
———————————————————————
SCLC outraged over black on black violence in Birmingham
Posted: Sep 10, 2014 1:54 PM EDT Updated: Sep 17, 2014 5:04 PM EDT
By Alan Collins
Pastor Calvin Woods, President of the Birmingham Metro SCLC and other SCLC members held a press conference in Kelly Ingram Park to address the recent violence among African Americans in Birmingham. Source: Alan Collins/WBRC
BIRMINGHAM, AL (WBRC) -
Over the last two weeks there have been 10 homicides in Birmingham.On Wednesday, the Birmingham Metro Chapter of the SCLC held a news conference to express its outrage that the murders involve African Americans killing African Americans.The news conference was held at the foot of the statue of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in Kelly Ingram Park."We are doubly disturbed when you have the black race seemingly trying to commit genocide upon itself," Pastor Calvin Woods, President of the Birmingham Metro SCLC, said.Woods is calling for massive demonstrations to march against violence.http://www.myfoxal.com/story/2649853...-in-birmingham.
———————————————————————
Black funeral home directors at Jacksonville convention express message to stop violence
By Dan Scanlan Tue, Apr 29, 2014 @ 3:15 pm
Funeral directors admit they earn money from death.
But the message from the National Funeral Directors and Morticians’ Association’s board meeting this week in Jacksonville is simple — they don’t want the business of burying young black men killed by violence.
Their comments comes as Jacksonville’s 2014 statistics show 22 of the 36 homicides as of Tuesday were young black men 17 to 25 years old, according to Times-Union records. So ranking members of the oldest organization of black funeral directors and embalmers are urging their members to reach out to their communities and corporations to find ways to help young people before they die or kill in retaliation.
“If we can stand up and say we don’t want to bury them, it is a strong statement,” association spokeswoman and Virginia funeral home owner Connie Steele said. “We don’t want to bury our kids. We want them to live to be 70 or 80 and be productive.”
———————————————————————
Anti-Violence Leaders From Across County Expected For ConferenceThe Father’s Day Rally Committee is hosting a three-day conference later this month that is expected to draw anti-violence leaders from all over the country. 10/14/2012 Black Self Genocidehosted.uwsepa.org/newsletter/blackonblack.pdf - Aug 10, 2012 ... National Black on Black Violence & Crime Conference. Black Self Genocide: Confronting the Enemy Within. Friday, August 10 through Sunday,
———————————————————————

...I could pages of events rallies workshops, community meeting , school partnership etc etc but i hope you get the point.
And i hope that puts Blacks CONCERN over black on black crime in some perspective. Maybe some think more needs to be done, Ok sure. But BTW what’s the republican/right's agenda for helping solve the Black on black crime problem? or maybe it’s just used as a talking point against blacks in general?

OK so at this point I’d like to comment on the idea that been tossed around in many threads here by a just a few people that Black crime is some innate part of Blacks or Black communities.
A few seem to think it’s a forgone conclusion, other site stats trying to nail the point as "fact".
I’ve never really wanted to get into a debate about such things , people who “believe it” just believe it. stats either way don’t matter.

But by why of a few simply numbers maybe this can add to a broader view of the issue.
OK, As the 1st post in this thread points out. the number of crimes and murders have gone DOWN OVERALL in the past 20- 30 years or so.
that’s a fact.

for those that think that black s are prone to murder and violence from the womb
i wonder how do we explain that there are more Blacks NOW but LESS murders in real numbers
1975 Apx 24 million Blacks in US
1975 Apx 11,000 murders by Black criminals

2005 Apx 40 million Blacks in US
2005 apx 10,000 murders by Black Criminals
Justice Dept stats
FBI stats say
apx 6500 in 2005 and apx 5500 in 2011

what can we say about these numbers?
AC mentioned that 99% of police stops are non violent right. no source on that stat BTW but it's assumed true. I wouldn't spend time trying to make few percentage points of difference. essentially i'm sure it's true.
police are not in general killing people off.
Neither are Blacks
40 million blacks and 10,000 murders by criminals.
So do these numbers prove that MOST black are “prone" to violence?
and the fact the the number of blacks has Doubled but the murders have dropped in real numbers. Does that imply ANYTHING about changing actions and so-called proclivity to violence?

over the same time period
1975 Apx 183 million Whites in US
1975 Apx 9,000 murders by White criminals

2005 Apx 218 million Whites in US
2005 Apx 8,500 murders by White criminals
A decrease in murder as well.

And The FBI numbers say that 85% of murders of Whites are done by Whites.
white on white crime? why do whites kill their own? animals maybe? FACT, There’s FAR MORE white on white murder in real numbers and by percentage (whites kill more white people than any other race).
So should we more or less ignore racially inspired murders that minorities commit against Whites?

Look in general, more often than not, people kill their loved ones, friends and neighbors — and since people of different racial backgrounds tend to live clustered together, they are far more likely to kill someone of their own race than someone of another race.

The latest figures from the FBI, Bureau of Justice Statistics and public health agencies show that among black youth, rates of robbery and serious property offenses are the lowest in more than 40 years. Rates of murder and rape are now lower than when nationwide crime statistics first appeared in 1965 — and those were far less complete than today’s. Assault rates are lower than when this crime statistic was expanded to include domestic violence and new offenses a quarter-century ago.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz3LJyNxzFJ

Violent and other criminal victimizations of young African-Americans have also plummeted to record lows, as have a host of other ills including unplanned pregnancy, drug abuse and school dropout rates. While the numbers remain considerably worse for blacks than for other groups, murder and violent crimes remain very rare events among African-Americans — and among youth in general.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz3LJyZl9l9

So it does appear it's going DOWN overall. Can you find pockets of a rise in spots? sure but the trend overall is going down. Is it as good as it needs to get? Of course not, but even in the midst of all of the media portrayal of all black youth as gangster, dropouts with "bad attitudes" it's moving in the right direction, in terms of real numbers, thank God.
do presidents get to take the blame or credit for it. I don't see how.

But one murder and crime is to many, Black White Green whatever it’s a universal problem it’s not a “black vs white” problem Crimes is crime, it’s a human problem. But it NEVER helps to demonize a race or group and assume the worse of them, we all live here together may as well help each other.
If it's not self evident that NO ONE wants to live in crime invested area,
the numbers and actions show that Blacks want less crime as well,
Just not at the price of harassing/killing innocents or minor criminals to get there.

[jimnyc]

Yes that was one of the articles.
of the 5 i posted plus the 7 or 8 refs to video post.

I wasn't dismissing any of your articles or nothing like that, Rev. I was just giving an example about that one article which pissed me off.

You've focused on an aspect of an article you think IMPLIES that ALL Police are "killers".
as you often ask me, did the article say that?

Yes, it did. Exact words:

In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.

That's outright stating that the 5000 people killed in the past decade were murdered.

IMO you've twisted it in the worse light and taken at great offense. so much so that it's unreadable to you.
IMO i think you're doing it a disservice.

That's my point. The exaggeration and lying in the first sentence makes it difficult to continue, on that one article. And I didn't twist that first sentence, they wrote it, not me. The only disservice was the writer harming his own article and facts with such a statement.

I think you're reading too much into my words, actually. I wasn't dismissing your complaints and total stories. I do believe that the police brutality that at times we see needs to stop. But I think the conversation needs to be fair, and the facts looked at properly is all. For starters, those against need to stop referring to all police involved shootings as "murderers".