I'm sorry

[jimnyc]

Where I worked previously I had a long conversation with HR that I kind of disagreed with at the time. They told me at mattered very little what I thought about my own words. Let me give a little background...

While the place was huge, the tech room was just a bunch of guys. Of course, being away from the rest of the company, one door, no windows - we often spoke like we were at the local bar. Sometimes we called one another some names that weren't too nice if you didn't know us. We laughed at the names and were all the best of friends. We couldn't understand what the big deal was.

Perception. What they said mattered is what the people heard, and whether it was offensive to them or not. You call a friend a dirty name - in a friendly manner - all that matters is how they perceived the words you spoke. This also went various other ways. If someone you weren't huge friends with, they use bad words in front of you, even if meant friendly, all that matters is how you perceived it. Same with others who simply overhear the words.

What is my point? The perception we give off with racism on our board. And once again, am I one of the worst offenders? I often will start threads about Ferguson, Sharpton, crime statistics... Some perceive my words as racist in nature. I don't use the N word unless contextually necessary. I don't name call if I can help it, and I try my best to avoid what perceptions might be seen by guest readers. But I understand the world we live in, and some will see racism if you just write the word "black man" - or even "Obama sucks".

But I think the majority, the overwhelming majority, know the major differences. Perception can insult. Discussions really shouldn't. Someone shouldn't be offended if I discuss crime within their particular race. Nor when I discuss current major events that discuss racial aspects. Nor pointing out racists like Sharpton. But other things said, even if we don't realize it at times, could send off vibes that one is racist. And even that is OK to an extent, anyone is free to be racist if they like.

I created and deleted a subforum awhile back that catered to "race relations". I made it so that the threads didn't show up at the top of the board. Then I moved the threads and deleted that forum. I don't want to do that again, as it's not fair to either side.

Some of the problem is subjects "leaking" from one thread to another. Often there will be a thread with good discussion, and sometimes a piece of it may be continued in another thread. Problem is, now those words are out of context for readers. In a Ferguson thread, a mention about black crime may seem innocent enough. Mentioning black crime in a thread about Twinkies may not sound quite as nice.

Sometimes it's meant as humor. But sometimes on man's humor is another man's insult.

ALL I'm asking is to please think of context. Keep threads on topic. Think about the perception of DP. Think of us as "family", and do you want your family looked upon a negative fashion? Do you know if we have black members or readers? What about other races? And please don't say you don't care, as this is a community, and we need to think about all of us as a package deal.

I'm sorry for things I have said that may have been perceived negatively, whether stated as such, or perceived incorrectly. Sometimes I don't write very well. Sometimes my out of control posts poke others into following suit.

And please don't yell at me for this. This isn't censorship or being a nazi or any of that crap. I'm not saying "you can't do this?" I'm simply speaking to the community, those who want this place to grow, explaining things, taking my responsibility, and hoping we can be a little better contextually and/or think about how we write things and how it may be perceived by the masses.

If I'm that way off base, you are free to ignore me, or politely explain how this is a wrong request.

[tailfins]

Mentioning black crime in a thread about Twinkies may not sound quite as nice.

Is the problem about black twinkies them being perpetrators or victims of crime?

Sometimes it's meant as humor. But sometimes on man's humor is another man's insult.

ALL I'm asking is to please think of context. Keep threads on topic. Think about the perception of DP. Think of us as "family", and do you want your family looked upon a negative fashion? Do you know if we have black members or readers? What about other races? And please don't say you don't care, as this is a community, and we need to think about all of us as a package deal.

I'm sorry for things I have said that may have been perceived negatively, whether stated as such, or perceived incorrectly. Sometimes I don't write very well. Sometimes my out of control posts poke others into following suit.

And please don't yell at me for this. This isn't censorship or being a nazi or any of that crap. I'm not saying "you can't do this?" I'm simply speaking to the community, those who want this place to grow, explaining things, taking my responsibility, and hoping we can be a little better contextually and/or think about how we write things and how it may be perceived by the masses.

If I'm that way off base, you are free to ignore me, or politely explain how this is a wrong request.

I do keep in mind not being a deterrent to new members joining when I post. On the other side of the scale, people won't join/post if they feel like they need to walk on eggshells.

Oh, and my standard reply to someone saying they are "sorry": YOU CERTAINLY ARE.

[jimnyc]

Is the problem about black twinkies them being perpetrators or victims of crime?



I do keep in mind not being a deterrent to new members joining when I post. On the other side of the scale, people won't join/post if they feel like they need to walk on eggshells.

Oh, and my standard reply to someone saying they are "sorry": YOU CERTAINLY ARE.

No egg shells!! Like I said, it's a request to keep things in context is all. It's not like folks are going to be banned if they speak their minds. I think it's helpful to the community as a whole that we pay attention to such things. Even yourself state that you sorta think about such things. This is just something else to think about prior to hitting the enter button. Nothing wrong with an explanation to everyone with the hopes that we can all take a peek as we post and decide. No one is harmed.

And your last comment is cool. If someone apologizes, and means it, then they ARE "sorry" for their actions/words. So pointing it out with emphasis is no biggie.

[Kathianne]

Jim, thanks for giving voice to what many of have been feeling, the board has lately been projecting a mindset that many of us do not share. When one tries to address in some form, they are called names or it's implied they are pandering. It's not true.

One can easily agree that the students at OU acted out in the very worst of fashion, while defending the first amendment. Acting like them would make one a knucklehead; acting like the University President, likewise. Saying that the students should be shunned, well that does make sense. This is not being PC, this is about being civil and an adult.

[tailfins]

No egg shells!! Like I said, it's a request to keep things in context is all. It's not like folks are going to be banned if they speak their minds. I think it's helpful to the community as a whole that we pay attention to such things. Even yourself state that you sorta think about such things. This is just something else to think about prior to hitting the enter button. Nothing wrong with an explanation to everyone with the hopes that we can all take a peek as we post and decide. No one is harmed.

And your last comment is cool. If someone apologizes, and means it, then they ARE "sorry" for their actions/words. So pointing it out with emphasis is no biggie.

I'm glad we're on the same page, YOU SORRY S.O.B.

[Perianne]

Where I worked previously I had a long conversation with HR that I kind of disagreed with at the time. They told me at mattered very little what I thought about my own words. Let me give a little background...

I suppose I see things differently. Jim, if you are interested, PM me.

[jimnyc]

I suppose I see things differently. Jim, if you are interested, PM me.

I'm shooting you a PM in a second...

But you are also welcome to chime in here. Maybe others can understand one another better? This is just a discussion. Based on what you quoted from me, I'm confused.

[jimnyc]

I'm glad we're on the same page, YOU SORRY S.O.B.

Now, me being sorry, and me being an SOB are 2 different things. Not that you're incorrect about that, but I only addressed myself being "sorry". You, not so sneakily, added in the insult. Now, I hope a very small spider crawls into your ear and lays eggs.

[gabosaurus]

If you are a true Christian, then you believe that God created everyone in his own image. And that no person is superior or inferior to another. If you can't approach a person of another race, religion or ethnicity on the street and embrace them as your brother, then you are not a Christian. Simple as that.
Some very famous people have believed that one race is better than others. Hitler was one of them. Perhaps you agree with him. A lot of people still do.
The only real second-class citizens are those who believe in the concept of second class citizens. There is no difference between the concept of whites being superior to blacks and the concept of one religion being superior to another.
The first amendment gives everyone the right to free speech. But you should also remember that everyone is judged by their words and deeds.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

[darin]

And Gabs illustrates standard 'resorting to out of context scripture' and nice and fluffy words with ulimatums.

Words don't betray somebody as a racist, neccessarily. Context does, perhaps moreso - but honestly, nobody knows whats in somebody's heart - however much they say. Yet I believe it's not important who we are deep down inside - its our actions/words that define us. Yup - agreed.


What I don't agree with: TALKING about stereotypes. AVOIDING the tough topics. CENSORING free expression of beliefs - racist or not.


And just stop being a dick to other people. (shrug).

[Gunny]

Where I worked previously I had a long conversation with HR that I kind of disagreed with at the time. They told me at mattered very little what I thought about my own words. Let me give a little background...

While the place was huge, the tech room was just a bunch of guys. Of course, being away from the rest of the company, one door, no windows - we often spoke like we were at the local bar. Sometimes we called one another some names that weren't too nice if you didn't know us. We laughed at the names and were all the best of friends. We couldn't understand what the big deal was.

Perception. What they said mattered is what the people heard, and whether it was offensive to them or not. You call a friend a dirty name - in a friendly manner - all that matters is how they perceived the words you spoke. This also went various other ways. If someone you weren't huge friends with, they use bad words in front of you, even if meant friendly, all that matters is how you perceived it. Same with others who simply overhear the words.

What is my point? The perception we give off with racism on our board. And once again, am I one of the worst offenders? I often will start threads about Ferguson, Sharpton, crime statistics... Some perceive my words as racist in nature. I don't use the N word unless contextually necessary. I don't name call if I can help it, and I try my best to avoid what perceptions might be seen by guest readers. But I understand the world we live in, and some will see racism if you just write the word "black man" - or even "Obama sucks".

But I think the majority, the overwhelming majority, know the major differences. Perception can insult. Discussions really shouldn't. Someone shouldn't be offended if I discuss crime within their particular race. Nor when I discuss current major events that discuss racial aspects. Nor pointing out racists like Sharpton. But other things said, even if we don't realize it at times, could send off vibes that one is racist. And even that is OK to an extent, anyone is free to be racist if they like.

I created and deleted a subforum awhile back that catered to "race relations". I made it so that the threads didn't show up at the top of the board. Then I moved the threads and deleted that forum. I don't want to do that again, as it's not fair to either side.

Some of the problem is subjects "leaking" from one thread to another. Often there will be a thread with good discussion, and sometimes a piece of it may be continued in another thread. Problem is, now those words are out of context for readers. In a Ferguson thread, a mention about black crime may seem innocent enough. Mentioning black crime in a thread about Twinkies may not sound quite as nice.

Sometimes it's meant as humor. But sometimes on man's humor is another man's insult.

ALL I'm asking is to please think of context. Keep threads on topic. Think about the perception of DP. Think of us as "family", and do you want your family looked upon a negative fashion? Do you know if we have black members or readers? What about other races? And please don't say you don't care, as this is a community, and we need to think about all of us as a package deal.

I'm sorry for things I have said that may have been perceived negatively, whether stated as such, or perceived incorrectly. Sometimes I don't write very well. Sometimes my out of control posts poke others into following suit.

And please don't yell at me for this. This isn't censorship or being a nazi or any of that crap. I'm not saying "you can't do this?" I'm simply speaking to the community, those who want this place to grow, explaining things, taking my responsibility, and hoping we can be a little better contextually and/or think about how we write things and how it may be perceived by the masses.

If I'm that way off base, you are free to ignore me, or politely explain how this is a wrong request.

Everything in life is about perception. You can post and repost until your fingers bleed trying to explain, and people are going to perceive what they want to. Remember, Pelosi and Reid are in office, not to mention King Barry I and his staff-groping minion Prince Joe.

This is a bit too PC for you. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. We currently live in a country where freedom of speech is selectively granted. The Obama mindset: apologize and feel guilty for who and what you are and stating what you think. A lot easier the let others tell you what to think. The Dems have been doing it to the GOP for decades until it's a mindset.

You aren't gong to change the perception of this board by what people post. It's WHO you let post that will change THAT perception. The perception of this board is not about what is posted on it. It's about who you let say what they want and who you don't.

Just my opinion.

[gabosaurus]

A lot of people are in favor of freedom of speech. Until someone says something that offends them. Then they get upset.
Like if someone came on this board today and said "I was so happy to hear about those military people dying in a chopper crash. I hope they all went to hell."
Or perhaps "The more Jews and Christians killed by ISIS, the better. They all need to die!"
Hate is created by those who hate.

[jimnyc]

"freedom of speech"

If anyone makes it to this post, and thinks that my OP was about censorship, or freedom of speech being denied or any of that, please read it again. I'm asking others to look at the big picture, and to think twice before hitting the reply button. If one wants to ignore what I said, and post whatever they will within the rules, so be it, no one is going to stop you.

[Abbey Marie]

If you are a true Christian, then you believe that God created everyone in his own image. And that no person is superior or inferior to another. If you can't approach a person of another race, religion or ethnicity on the street and embrace them as your brother, then you are not a Christian. Simple as that.
Some very famous people have believed that one race is better than others. Hitler was one of them. Perhaps you agree with him. A lot of people still do.
The only real second-class citizens are those who believe in the concept of second class citizens. There is no difference between the concept of whites being superior to blacks and the concept of one religion being superior to another.
The first amendment gives everyone the right to free speech. But you should also remember that everyone is judged by their words and deeds.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Dang, Gabby, you had me until the bolded part. There is a huge difference between the two. The former belief/attitude goes against the teachings of the Bible, as you have pointed out. The latter is actually right in tune with the Bible (and many other religious works), but not as being "superior".

My religion is not superior, as we are not in a contest. It is my belief, as the Bible tells us, that Jesus actually is THE way, THE truth and THE life, and no one goes to the Father but through Him. If we believe that all religions are the same, then Jesus was a liar. He was quite clear on the subject. That does not mean we are superior. That is the wrong way to frame it. It is, however, a way of being pejorative.

[Abbey Marie]

Re: the OP. I must admit that I am uncomfortable at times with some posts I see. And wonder what an observer might think. On the whole, though, I think we are pretty tame compared to many sites out there. I don't catch everything, though, and I may have missed some egregious stuff.