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    Default Haley calls for removal of Confederate flag

    Some want it removed from the Capitol by tomorrow, but legally it appears it will be removed sometimes this summer. I've read various stories. Haley gave the announcement this afternoon.

    ---

    South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley called for the removal of the Confederate flag from the grounds of the state Capitol Monday.

    "Today we are here in a moment of unity to say it's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds," Haley said during a news conference attended by Republican senators Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, as well as other state leaders.

    Meanwhile, political and religious leaders in the state urged lawmakers to vote to remove the flag as early as Tuesday in tribute to the nine people gunned down at a historic black church in Charleston last week. Authorities have said the shooting was a hate crime, and a white supremacist website that may be linked to shooter Dylann Roof shows images that apparently show him holding the flag.

    "This act will do something very personal," Charleston Mayor Joe Riley said on Monday.

    "Take away Mr. Roof's symbol of misguided idea of racial superiority and bigotry. Take it away from him and all like him and give the front of our state Capitol equally and fairly to every citizen of South Carolina," he said.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/cha...-state-n379801
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Some want it removed from the Capitol by tomorrow, but legally it appears it will be removed sometimes this summer. I've read various stories. Haley gave the announcement this afternoon.

    ---

    South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley called for the removal of the Confederate flag from the grounds of the state Capitol Monday.

    "Today we are here in a moment of unity to say it's time to move the flag from the capitol grounds," Haley said during a news conference attended by Republican senators Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, as well as other state leaders.

    Meanwhile, political and religious leaders in the state urged lawmakers to vote to remove the flag as early as Tuesday in tribute to the nine people gunned down at a historic black church in Charleston last week. Authorities have said the shooting was a hate crime, and a white supremacist website that may be linked to shooter Dylann Roof shows images that apparently show him holding the flag.

    "This act will do something very personal," Charleston Mayor Joe Riley said on Monday.

    "Take away Mr. Roof's symbol of misguided idea of racial superiority and bigotry. Take it away from him and all like him and give the front of our state Capitol equally and fairly to every citizen of South Carolina," he said.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/cha...-state-n379801

    Anyone happen to remember what I have been saying about why I DO NOT TRUST Politicians, from either party. They have folded. Given-in, Appeased, just like Obama.
    If they are willing to do this. The 1st, and 2nd amendments ARE NEXT.
    Just watch.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Political posturing by Haley to gain points. The flag didn't make the cowardly idiot shoot those people.

    I'm sure he likes swastikas, too. I read where he was ranting about Jews as well as Blacks, so would decreeing that swastikas are not allowed save lives as well?

    He was a mentally unbalanced loser, and there's no symbols that drove him to it. The whole idea is ridiculous.

    Stupid politicians like this making useless gestures just serve to muddy the waters - the kid had mental issues and that should be the hot topic, not a damn Confederate flag.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutime View Post
    Anyone happen to remember what I have been saying about why I DO NOT TRUST Politicians, from either party. They have folded. Given-in, Appeased, just like Obama.
    If they are willing to do this. The 1st, and 2nd amendments ARE NEXT.
    Just watch.
    I think we should ban the Democratic party. The most un-American thing we have going today.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    And, as we have seen over and over and over, the racemongers win again. It's the adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

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    First, I'm not sure why you, Night, would say Nicki Haley is "posturing." She is currently serving her second term as governor and is not eligible to run for the office again until four years after the end of her last term. You might say that she hopes to seek a higher office, but I have not heard any rumblings to that effect. It's not impossible, she's smart, popular in the state, and attractive (let's not pretend that isn't a factor for politicians).

    Second, removing the flag only happens with a 2/3 affirmative vote in the state senate. This is the result of the compromise reached in 2000. Unless I am mistaken, the practice of flying the flag over the capitol dome resulted in a tourism boycott, an effective one, spurred on by the NAACP (I can see how they would be offended). The bill was passed in a senate controlled by Democrats, and it was signed in to law by a Democrat governor. Considering the current atmosphere here in the state, it could happen. There is talk of moving behind the state house, but in my mind if that were to happen they might as well stuff it in a drawer somewhere because it would be even more meaningless than it is now (it currently flies at the Confederate Soldiers Memorial which commemorates those killed during the Civil War).

    Personally, I'm not sure where I stand...

    I understand and respect those who find offense in the flying of the Confederate naval ensign, how could you not? I also understand its significance to the history of this country and believe that history should be embraced, not hidden. The problem is that many racists and bigots have co-opted the stars and bars and in today's America it is synonymous with hatred and racism. Forget the fact that the majority of the men who fought for the Confederate States, the men who fought under the flag, were too poor to own slaves...

    The obvious problem is that you can't please all of the people all of the time...

    But I will suggest that whatever they do, the do it with a good deal of thought because...

    How long will it be after the last Confederate flag comes down that people remember that slavery was an institution under the American flag, the Stars and Stripes, for a much longer period of time than it was under the Flag of the Confederate states?
    "I am allergic to piety, it makes me break out in rash judgements." - Penn Jillette
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with a lot of pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "The man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer ever discovered." - Robert G. Ingersoll

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmick View Post
    First, I'm not sure why you, Night, would say Nicki Haley is "posturing." She is currently serving her second term as governor and is not eligible to run for the office again until four years after the end of her last term. You might say that she hopes to seek a higher office, but I have not heard any rumblings to that effect. It's not impossible, she's smart, popular in the state, and attractive (let's not pretend that isn't a factor for politicians).
    That's exactly what I think, HJ. She's making political hay for whatever position she runs for next, and your average voter isn't smart enough to realize that an inanimate object cannot make a human commit an unspeakable crime.
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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    She may have been popular in SC but I am afraid this will take all that popularity away, I remember when they took it off the state house roof and people weren't happy about it then. Some truly do look at this flag as their heritage not as hate, in GA ( and I think it is in other southern states ) they have Sons of The Confederate Lisc. plates ( which was actually started by woman ) but these plates go to mostly folks that are very proud to of had family that fought in the war. To take that flag away from a statue that is in memory of those that died isn't going to win her a popularity contest for sure. Many folks where furious when they removed it in the first place, and yes there was a tourist boycott, it came in the form of the college basketball finals, if the flag didn't come down they would boycott. Personally the flag means neither heritage or hate to me, I like it because of the rebel status, but a push now because some racist scum bag shot up a bunch of good folks is ridicules, that flag had nothing to do with his hatred.

    And to be honest the only folks that are even worried about that flag now a days are those that are racist themselves, this flag doesn't fly over the state house it is at a monument, the blacks that where so worried about it being over the state house won, now they will push for more, well again I have to ask why is there a African March from Columbia to Charleston, blacks weren't the only ones to build SC so why are they the only ones to be recognized ? This is the kind of stuff that pushed racist to feel the way they do, the flag deal was quiet, it wasn't flying over the State house, but some want the entire bowl of marbles instead of compromise.
    Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up

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    Personally I've never gotten the wanting to hold onto the Confederate Flag, but I do think it's protected by the first amendment. Now mind you, I'm from the North, so my take is not without bias.

    I saw this, and thought it was on mark:

    http://www.redstate.com/2015/06/22/t...e-battle-flag/

    The Confederate Battle Flag

    By:Erick Erickson (Diary) | June 22nd, 2015 at 12:00 AM

    The Bible tells me to love my neighbor. I have a number of black friends and I do not know any of them who would feel comfortable coming into my house if I were flying the Confederate battle flag. So I don’t. In fact, in my life, the people I can think of who proudly fly the Confederate battle flag outside their homes are people in whose yards, let alone houses, I would not feel comfortable.

    I think if a Christian is to love his neighbor, he cannot fly a flag that so many of his neighbors associate with the defense of slavery. I agree with my friend Russell Moore in that, but I disagree in that I do think there are places that the Confederate flag is appropriate. I think it is appropriate at Confederate soldiers’ cemeteries. I think it is appropriate at Confederate memorials and museums. Frankly, considering a majority of citizens in Mississippi, both black and white, voted to keep it on their state flag, I think it is appropriate there. Mississippi, unlike many Southern states, put the Confederate battle flag on their state flag shortly after the Civil War, not in protest in the 1950’s and 60’s.

    Outside of those locations, I don’t think it is appropriate. You, like many of my friends and family, may think the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of heritage, not hate. But for millions of black Americans, it is a very real symbol of oppression.

    I’m afraid, though, that we are about to see a run on Confederate battle flags. Someone is going to make a tidy profit.

    The only people I know who grumble and dwell on the flag are busy-body academics and people who don’t live in the South who have a low opinion of the region with or without the flag. The response, in the South, has been a reinforcement that others are bigoted toward the South and that the flag really does represent heritage, not hate — a heritage a bunch of racist1, northern white liberals want to stamp out. I have more than one relative, as do most white Southerners, who has a battle flag with “Heritage Not Hate” written in proximity to it. You and I can roll our eyes at this, but it is pervasive.

    And now, because a bunch of mostly white yankees are again yelling about the battle flag, we’re not going to see a flag and tradition die out. Instead, we’re going to see a bunch of twenty and thirty-something Southerners go out and buy fresh flags as a middle finger to the Northern white liberals who did not like them without the flag. The Sons of Confederate Veterans are probably getting recruiting material ready as we speak.

    ...

    Once the flag is gone, the left will advance to the next issue then the next issue, etc. They won’t compromise. There is no compromise. There is only conversion or censorship with the left.

    But I also think if you proudly fly the Confederate battle flag and call yourself a Christian, you need to ask yourself how you are being a good neighbor to the black family down the street, next door, or on the other side of town whose ancestors were enslaved under that flag and whose parents or grandparents faced down white men in the streets waving that flag as an act of rebellion against voting rights.

    None of this really matters though. Because the issue is now politicized, you might as well buy stock in companies that produce the Confederate battle flag. They’re going to get a lot of orders from people who equate raising the stars and bars with raising the middle finger toward liberals up north.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Personally I've never gotten the wanting to hold onto the Confederate Flag, but I do think it's protected by the first amendment. Now mind you, I'm from the North, so my take is not without bias.

    I saw this, and thought it was on mark:

    http://www.redstate.com/2015/06/22/t...e-battle-flag/
    Kat I have it tattooed and have many black friends, it is a piece of cloth, no different than the cloth that the shirts stating it's a black thing or It's our turn now are made on.

    Many folks feel very strong about the flag, I have many friends that have a lot of civil war memorials hanging in their homes, from hats to flags. And most of these folks don't have a racist bone in their body. I also have a black friend that rides with us, he has the confederate flag on his helmet ( a sticker ) see he looks at it like I do, neither as heritage or hate just as a sign of doing things his way.

    Another way to look at the flag if we must, is for a black person to look at how far they have come, if the flag truly bothers them then they ought to be laughing because they have come so far, take SC for example, they fought to get it off of the top of the state house and now a terrible tragedy happens, so now folks want it off a confederate memorial. In other words some want it all heir way with no compromise.
    Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Kat I have it tattooed and have many black friends, it is a piece of cloth, no different than the cloth that the shirts stating it's a black thing or It's our turn now are made on.

    Many folks feel very strong about the flag, I have many friends that have a lot of civil war memorials hanging in their homes, from hats to flags. And most of these folks don't have a racist bone in their body. I also have a black friend that rides with us, he has the confederate flag on his helmet ( a sticker ) see he looks at it like I do, neither as heritage or hate just as a sign of doing things his way.

    Another way to look at the flag if we must, is for a black person to look at how far they have come, if the flag truly bothers them then they ought to be laughing because they have come so far, take SC for example, they fought to get it off of the top of the state house and now a terrible tragedy happens, so now folks want it off a confederate memorial. In other words some want it all heir way with no compromise.
    I can respect that. I came across the following the other day, it was related to some issue in Europe. I think it has some related observations:

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/42880/

    ...In fact, of course, the American South knows what it’s like to lose a war, and to be occupied, which may possibly explain why the American South is also far more military-minded than other parts of the United States — or, for that matter, than London. And the American South certainly didn’t like being occupied. Reconstruction was very unpopular, and my grandmother can still tell stories that she heard from her grandmother about Union soldiers passing through and stripping the place bare of everything except what they were able to hide, and of the years (decades, really) of privation that followed the war.

    But American southerners know something that apparently a lot of other people seem to have trouble with: how to lose a war and not hold a grudge. (Much of one, anyway). The monument shown above illustrates that; it sits about a block from my office (click the picture for a bigger image; you can see a closeup of the inscription here if that’s too hard to read on your display). As late as the Spanish-American War, there was considerable doubt about whether southerners would turn out to fight for the United States. They did. (My great-grandfather was one of them).

    There are a lot of reasons for that, but the American experience of reconciliation after one of the world’s bloodier and more divisive conflicts is one that perhaps ought to get more attention. It may be that, like so many things American, it is exceptional. But maybe not.

    Meanwhile, with the Civil War in mind, reader Gregory Birrer points out that Europe never changes:

    I have been reading a little book I picked up while in Gettysburg recently, entitled, “Memoranda During The War” by Walt Whitman. It is a compilation of his notes from about 3 years worth of visits to War hospitals in and around Washington D.C. from 1862 – 1865. Toward the end he inserts some interesting political commentary (mixed in with a variety of topics) that sounds as if it could have been written today. Here’s the piece:


    Attitude of Foreign Governments toward the U.S. during the War of 1861-’65 -

    Looking over my scraps, I find I wrote the following during 1864, or the latter part of ’63: The happening to our America, abroad as well as at home, these years, is indeed most strange. The Democratic Republic has paid her to-day the terrible and resplendent compliment of the united wish of all the nations of the world that her Union should be broken, her future cut off, and that she should be compell’d to descend to the level of kingdoms and empires ordinarily great!There is certainly not one government in Europe but is now watching the war in this country, with the ardent prayer that the united States may be effectually split, crippled, and dismember’d by it. There is not one but would help toward that dismemberment, if it dared. I say such is the ardent wish to-day of England and of France, as governments, and of all the nations of Europe, as governments. I think indeed it is to-day the real, heart-felt wish of all the nations of the world, with the single exception of Mexico–Mexico, the only one to whom we have ever really done wrong, and now the only one who prays for us and for our triumph, with genuine prayer.


    Is it not indeed strange? America, made up of all, cheerfully from the beginning opening her arms to all, the result and justifier of all, of Britain, Germany, France, and Spain – all here – the accepter, the friend, hope, last resource and general house of all – she who has harm’d none, but been bounteous to so many, to millions, the mother of strangers and exiles, all nations – should now I say be paid this dread compliment of general governmental fear and hatred?…….Are we indignant? alarm’d? Do we feel wrong’d? jeopardized? No; help’d, braced, concentrated, rather.


    We are all too prone to wander from ourselves, to affect Europe, and watch her frowns and smiles. We need this hot lesson of general hatred, and henceforth must never forget it. Never again will we trust the moral sense nor abstract friendliness of a single government of the world.

    “Never again?” Apparently, we need to be reminded from time to time. European hopes for our descent were frustrated then by the greatness of the American spirit, which both ended the war and — more importantly — managed to build a great nation without bitterness. May it be so again. And may the Europeans who resent it continue to gnash their teeth.
    Which brought another observation from another source: https://web.archive.org/web/20031120...es/000709.html

    ...Southerners are, and were, extremely proud and prickly, which made the whole losing-and-occupation experience particularly unpleasant. (Taking offense at being dissed is not a black thing. It's a southern thing that blacks have only recently been allowed to express without fear of violent reprisal.) But, as Glenn notes, our ancestors eventually rejoined the Union and even became devoted to it. He doesn't note another effect, which helps explain his views and mine: If war is coming, Southerners know that it's better to fight on the other guy's territory.

    Actually, most Americans are descended from refugees (or prisoners) from occupied lands of one sort or another. It's a tribute to the power of American identity that nobody notices.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    I'd be remiss if not posting the related link to the conversation on Civil War:

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/172710/

    DAVID BERNSTEIN ON why some libertarians sympathize with the Confederacy. This follows up on several other posts on this rather odd fringe, but I’ve said most of what I have to say on the subject here. See this, too. And this. And, for that matter, this.

    I think, however, that while the following may be an accurate description of why some libertarians might wish the Confederacy had won, it’s also stupid: “If you believe that the United States government has been a massive force for evil in the world, and also object to much of the government’s domestic policy, it’s only natural to wish that the government’s ability to do the damage it wrought had been nipped in the bud. And the most plausible way this could have happened historically would have been for the South to have successfully seceded from the North, leaving a much smaller and weaker central government that would likely have faced further secessionist challenges in the future.”

    The most likely outcome of a Confederate victory would have been another war, or wars, down the line: “A generation of madness,” as described in one Harry Turtledove series about just that. And the likely outcome of such a path wouldn’t have been smaller government or more liberty.

    In truth, the single greatest blow the South could have struck for liberty and small government would have been not to secede. Unfortunate that things didn’t work out that way.

    As for James Webb’s Confederate enthusiasms, well, let’s just put that down to martial romance.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Haley calls for removal of Confederate flag
    It's beyond time! The flag represents the Confederacy, which no longer exists. To continue to fly the flag is a defiance of the unity of the States.

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    If anyone thinks they are bringing America together by removing the flag, they are full of feces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perianne View Post
    If anyone thinks they are bringing America together by removing the flag, they are full of feces.
    Well, I can certainly agree with that. America is a "melting pot" of different cultures that are not "melting", but are certainly active in their ideas and ideals, so there will always be disagreement.

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