Civil War began because of Slavery

[red state]

I don't think were in much disagreement here.

Yes, the north was very conflicted about slavery in many ways. I'm not sure why people don't think i understand that. Yes the north was conflicted and very racist in many ways. even some of the abolishoist were pretty hardcore racist. The North was not perfect by ANY stretch but it was moving away from slavery with a real moral passion. A passion that the south understood well as the opposite of their own vision of what slavery was..
But the South wasn't very conflicted at all. It believed without much reservation that slavery was, moral, a constitutional right and that the white man was the "natural" ruler of blacks. Also, as you say, the south was economically wedded to it. So they had few desires economically or morally to give it up.
But even with that background over the decades many proposals in the upper southern states had been raised about removing slavery ..all shot down that i know of. However after secession the confederate constitution cemented legal slavery into the the southern states indefinitely. I really don't know how politically those few apposed to slavery were going to get a leg up in a fight to abolish what had JUST been etched into the highest law of the land. Imagine if there was a new amendment just passed and ratified that made abortion a full legal right today. How much harder would it make it for pro-life advocates to fight and defeat abortion in the U.S.?
And I don't know how of much a move economically there was to slow or divest from slavery in the south. i've read a few letters of people geared to move slavery into other south american countries and especially into the new territories as the confederacy had dreams of moving westward and south. The slave trade was waning world wide but the products of slavery i'm not so sure. if you've got some info on that i'd love to see it.

One article I posted in another thread was about the South's failure to even be willing free slave to fight in the war until the very last days when they were in full desperation mode. During the 1st 3.5 years of war Many basically asked the question. "why are we fighting if we are going to free the slaves if they fight in the war anyway?

I'd like to make one (or three) good points here without re-hatching the entire topic:

• Those who owned slaves in the North were not plantation owners in need of a 100 or more pickers so they could easily take such a loss of investment more so than their Southern counterparts.
• The North had virtual free labor (as Gunny pointed out) who cost them NOTHING. These "slaves" were mainly from Ireland and were expendable for lowering the ammo count of the South and could easily be replaced after working a man to death in a dangerous work environment. Heck, as least the Plantation owners cared for their investment and didn't want sickness, injury or fatigue to put one down.......after all, those few who owned slaves in the South, although wealthy like their Northern peers) were very different from the Northern slavers because the South had to PAY for their slaves.
• I don't agree with slavery but if given the choice of the Irish and their mistreatment and being forced to stop a bullet and the life as a slave in the GORGEOUS South where the owner actually has an investment in me....I'll take the South (although I'd still 'GO WEST'). Many poor blacks faced starvation (like the Irish) after the war cuz slavery at least put food on their table (no welfare back then).

[revelarts]

Red if i may comment on yours as well.

I'd like to make one (or three) good points here without re-hatching the entire topic:
[*]Those who owned slaves in the North were not plantation owners in need of a 100 or more pickers so they could easily take such a loss of investment more so than their Southern counterparts.

Lincoln offered to by the Slaves in Delaware and in the South.
none took up his offer.

[*]The North had virtual free labor (as Gunny pointed out) who cost them NOTHING. These "slaves" were mainly from Ireland and were expendable for lowering the ammo count of the South and could easily be replaced after working a man to death in a dangerous work environment. Heck, as least the Plantation owners cared for their investment and didn't want sickness, injury or fatigue to put one down.......after all, those few who owned slaves in the South, although wealthy like their Northern peers) were very different from the Northern slavers because the South had to PAY for their slaves.
[*]I don't agree with slavery but if given the choice of the Irish and their mistreatment and being forced to stop a bullet and the life as a slave in the GORGEOUS South where the owner actually has an investment in me....I'll take the South (although I'd still 'GO WEST'). Many poor blacks faced starvation (like the Irish) after the war cuz slavery at least put food on their table (no welfare back then).[/LIST]

Uh sheesh

there were many poor free blacks, mostly laborers, living in the North as well. often sectioned off into in poor areas, sometimes not even allowed to live in certain towns and of course without the full citizens rights of the Irish even. Some of them were escaped slaves most not. But after the fugitive slave act they all feared they'd go ...or go BACK... to the south. For some reason you don't hear many (any) accounts of those who volunteered to go back to the South to get the wonderful care of their old southern masters in the GORGEOUS South. Choosing to 'slave' in the poverty stricken limited freedom of the North for some reason.

Maybe they thought the old Patrick Henry line was true.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!"

[Jeff]

Red if i may comment on yours as well.

Lincoln offered to by the Slaves in Delaware and in the South.
none took up his offer.


Uh sheesh

there were many poor free blacks, mostly laborers, living in the North as well. often sectioned off into in poor areas, sometimes not even allowed to live in certain towns and of course without the full citizens rights of the Irish even. Some of them were escaped slaves most not. But after the fugitive slave act they all feared they'd go ...or go BACK... to the south. For some reason you don't hear many (any) accounts of those who volunteered to go back to the South to get the wonderful care of their old southern masters in the GORGEOUS South. Choosing to 'slave' in the poverty stricken limited freedom of the North for some reason.

Maybe they thought the old Patrick Henry line was true.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!"

So are you saying Lincoln wanted that nice cheap labor as well.

So the Civil war was because the South wouldn't give up their labor for the cheap price Lincoln wanted to pay.

Yes I am laughing and kidding Rev, don't blow a gasket. I find this a subject that we can joke about ( even though yes it is history ) but it does't effect a one of us alive today, other than the folks in the south that still wish to be doing their own thing.

[revelarts]

Col. Ty Seidule
Head Dept of History,
U.S. Military Academy, West Point