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    Default Debunking the Big Bang...

    presentation by scientist that show the huge science problems with the big bang model.

    By a former atheist scientist that worked at NASA who became a creationist because of the science and then later became a christian.


    Last edited by revelarts; 08-16-2015 at 09:32 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
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    Good vid, Rev.

    A small quibble... that AC hum in the audio track is terrible! They need to filter that out.
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    anyone verified his credentials?
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    There used to be two prevailing theories about the creation of the Universe. Namely, 'Big Bang', versus 'Steady State'. The two were opposites.

    But, because so much pointed to an origin-point, Hoyle, Gold and Bondi .. the ones responsible for 'Steady State' .. had to modify their thinking. It became 'Modified Steady State', because so much scientific observation DID point to an initial 'Big Bang'.

    Hoyle and his colleagues were poor losers, it seems.

    I see no reason to debunk the 'Big Bang'. It perfectly indicates the existence of a God. Big Bang means the Universe was created. That means, there was a Creator, one timeless, unrestricted to space. This for me does a good job of describing a God, complete with Godly powers, and the product of their use !
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Beyond God - intelligent design is just better science. At the crux of the problem - today's secular society refuses ANY answers or even evidence that counters the 'group think' - there's no intelligence allowed to be taught, despite overwhelming evidence.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    and listening - despite credentials, his logic is sound for more than a few things.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Beyond God - intelligent design is just better science. At the crux of the problem - today's secular society refuses ANY answers or even evidence that counters the 'group think' - there's no intelligence allowed to be taught, despite overwhelming evidence.
    Remember our friend, Augusto ? Came on here with his secular thinking, apparently believing he could counter us all with a bit of 'commonsense' .. and when it didn't prove to be the easy task he thought it'd be, the insults started.

    My own countering arguments .. with just the one exception .. he ran away from.

    To me, the existence of a God is logically irrefutable. The Universe, regardless of precise detail as to how, DID have its point of origin, and everything that defines existence AS WE CAN KNOW IT, is dependent on laws specific to the Universe itself. Yet, the Universe was created. Whatever did create it, MUST, by any definition we can struggle to come up with, have had 'Godly' powers, and a 'Godly' non-dependence on conditions which restrain us mere mortals.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Having to go out so stopping about 25mins in.

    He's currently talking about how the conservation of energy and mass are 'true' and this violates the requirements for the big bang. At any point does he go on to say how a Universe was created without the Laws of conservation being broken?
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    and listening - despite credentials, his logic is sound for more than a few things.
    The credentials I've seen are only as he presented them. And no one seems to credible dismiss them.

    But as you say the facts and logical points he outlines seem sound and i've found verification for the many of the points made and read some critiques of his various points. the critiques i've seen for the most part are lame.

    the most honest thing Big Bang supporters seem to say in reply are things like.
    "well there are some problems and assumptions here and there but overall it's better than anything else and we are finding more confirmation all the time."

    which reads to me like, 'I know it's got holes showing my arse but It's the best dress i've got so don't knock it. and i hate your alternative.'

    there are other NON creation scientist that point out many of the same Big Bang problems and propose an "electric steady state eternal universe."

    As a christian i admittedly start with creation so I have a problem with an eternal universe theory.
    But even scientifically an eternal universe breaks the laws of physics 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics AND still doesn't account for the fine tuning of the universe for life. as well as other problems.
    But still they are very adamant about the larger problems of the Big Bang than with their young theory.
    link to groups statement of big bang problems

    At this point the MOST honest thing to do scientifically speaking is to say there's not enough info to make HARD conclusions BUT the big bang seems wrong and an eternal universe is impossible, the fine-tuning makes it look planned SOMEhow, so there might be a Creator.

    Basically scientifically speaking even though there are a lot of questions still, it looks more created than random. unless you add fudge factors OUTSIDE of known scientific laws.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Having to go out so stopping about 25mins in.

    He's currently talking about how the conservation of energy and mass are 'true' and this violates the requirements for the big bang. At any point does he go on to say how a Universe was created without the Laws of conservation being broken?
    No he doesn't.
    But naturally it's impossible.

    others have pointed out that either way someone invokes a miracle to get us where we are now.
    When i read Hawking's Brief history of Time i laughed out loud when he talked about a "singularity" at the beginning of time.
    He just described a "miracle".

    Physicist Lawrence Krauss's book about the the "universe from nothing" has been reviewed and they say he doesn't REALLY start from nothing But he starts with a quantum field ..in time... with energy.. moving... fluctuation. then you get matter, the universe (or universes) and everything.

    Everyone invokes a miracle to get started and at various points along the line. So the 1st question is, is it an uncaused impersonally unconscious random miracle or is it caused and intelligently designed as it appears to be?
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    http://americanloons.blogspot.com/20...e-psarris.html

    That’s the level at which Psarris’s pseudoscientific denialism is pitched. To see it in more detail, you can download his DVDs, in which he explains his creationist astronomy in an accessible manner. You will look in vain for actual science or research. But creationism has always been about outreach, not research.

    Despite the inanity of his work, Psarris has some fans in the creationist community. Bob Enyart and Fred Williams have been caught praising his work. Here is something called The 4th Day Alliance trying their hand at creation astronomy as well. It is … what it is, I suppose.

    Diagnosis: Firmly located at the more helplessly moronic end of the creationist spectrum. His influence is probably limited to people who are already irrevocably reality challenged.
    Last edited by Voted4Reagan; 08-17-2015 at 12:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voted4Reagan View Post
    http://americanloons.blogspot.com/20...e-psarris.html

    That’s the level at which Psarris’s pseudoscientific denialism is pitched. To see it in more detail, you can download his DVDs, in which he explains his creationist astronomy in an accessible manner. You will look in vain for actual science or research. But creationism has always been about outreach, not research.

    Despite the inanity of his work, Psarris has some fans in the creationist community. Bob Enyart and Fred Williams have been caught praising his work. Here is something called The 4th Day Alliance trying their hand at creation astronomy as well. It is … what it is, I suppose.

    Diagnosis: Firmly located at the more helplessly moronic end of the creationist spectrum. His influence is probably limited to people who are already irrevocably reality challenged.
    got any facts to refute what the says? this is just a board side ad hominem attack.


    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    No he doesn't.
    In which case i think i'll save myself from watching the final hour.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    In which case i think i'll save myself from watching the final hour.
    ah yes,
    so we understand all we need to know scientifically by NOT reviewing the challenges to various theories.

    science at it's dogmatic usual.
    Last edited by revelarts; 08-17-2015 at 12:51 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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