Freedom of Speech

[NightTrain]

Drummond, I think almost every American here has told you that your argument would not hold up in court.

You stubbornly keep beating that dead horse, but that doesn't change anything.

If you think what you say has any legal merit, then head over to YouTube and read the comments section. Believe me, if what you claim was true, Google would have shut down that comment section years ago. They'd have been dragged into tens of thousands of lawsuits to provide IP addresses.

And not one lawsuit over libel or slander by literally millions of commenters saying some very despicable things to each other.

That's because lawyers don't like getting thrown out of court for legal cases without merit after a good ass chewing by the judge about 1st Amendment rights.

[Noir]

An example... let's say I wanted to apply for a job working for my local Conservative association...In such a scenario...

If you think this scenario has any basis in reality, you've gone wrong.

[indago]

I think I come back to an earlier (and fundamental) point. Does libel matter, or doesn't it ?

Does Hypocrisy matter?

POSTING

[red state]

Leave it alone, use the ignore feature.

Otherwise grow the hell up...

Former Forum Owner, Admin, and Chief Mod Sends...

Agreed....if they goof up and blow $#!T out of their mouth like with the "total silence" thread......IGNORE THEM (or get with our info specialist, find out where they live and knock the $#!T out of their mouth so that they come back to the board (hat in hand) with a little more respect.

[Drummond]

If you think this scenario has any basis in reality, you've gone wrong.

I look forward to your proving that I couldn't apply for a job at my local Conservative association !!

(.. unless, of course, you're suggesting that what's happened here would make it a non-viable task .. ?)

[Perianne]

Look at Gunny and I. We both told the other to go F themselves and all that fun stuff a few dozen times by now. Gunny knows better than anyone that I can give as good as I get, and I can take the harsh stuff.

I hate them, fucker....

Sometimes it hurts people's feelings to get called a name. If someone on here called me a "f*cker", or told me to go F myself, I wouldn't know what to think or do. I would probably think about leaving this forum. But I know that is how men joke with each other. I suspect my husband (RIP) called other men names and they didn't think anything about it. But if he had called me a name it would have probably made me cry.

Perhaps, just perhaps, it is different that way for our British friend, too. Maybe being called a name (like "liberal") is more offensive to some people from different cultures. Maybe to my friend Drummond being called a "liberal" is like a black man being called a "nigger".

Anyway, my two cents.

[Noir]

I look forward to your proving that I couldn't apply for a job at my local Conservative association !!

(.. unless, of course, you're suggesting that what's happened here would make it a non-viable task .. ?)

That is not what I was saying...What i meant was that if you applied for a job with a conservative association, what some guy or gal has said about you on the internet it not going to matter, at all, ever.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

God knows, Tyr, we are usually in lockstep on our viewpoints. But here is one example of where we're not.

I've said it before, I expect I'll say it again: with freedom, comes responsibility. People should, and do, bear responsibility for what they say. If they didn't, the whole notion of slander, or libel, would quickly become meaningless.

I'd say this - if two people were in a bar, pub, restaurant, whatever ... and started 'calling each other names' ... that'd be one thing. Forums like this, though, are public to a much wider degree. Literally WORDWIDE coverage occurs here (and if it didn't, I'd not even be on here in the first place).

An example .. let's say I wanted to apply for a job working for my local Conservative association. If, in the interview, I was asked what I'd done to represent Conservative views to others and to persuade others of the Conservative point of view .. as matters stand, I'd have to keep silent about my participation here, and what I'd said and done .. because if I didn't, and someone from there were to check this board out, they might well question why anyone would insist - AND refuse to ever apologise for it !! - that I were a supposed 'liberal'.

In such a scenario, were I stupid enough to say I posted here and to identify myself to that association, the outcome could well decide whether or not they ever took me on as an employee.

And, for why ? Because someone took it upon themselves to KNOWINGLY misrepresent what I'm all about !

My friend , here people are free to make mistakes, tell the truth as they see it, deliberately lie, state opinions be they valid or not, cast aspersions, refuse to reply, distort truth, or standby what they have said with no force levied to force correction or an apology.
To be perfectly frank with you-- if Jim did force people to apologize or tailor their thoughts/statements made, just to placate other member's wishes I 'd leave this forum today!
Are you a liberal? NO!
ARE YOU AS DAMN STUBBORN AS ME! YES! (I admire that myself)
Anybody here that thinks you are a stinking liberal is ffing nuts!
So don't sweat it and just let it drop.
You know I've told you myself--I myself would never apologize on demand.
And if Jim tried to force such -I'd leave..
So, tis best to stop--
A true friend never gives insincere or valueless advice..... ---Tyr

[Drummond]

So, you have explained "the "Truth" of the matter", but you haven't explained "the "untruth"" of what jimnyc wrote. Why is that?

Well .. 'the untruth' means it's NOT TRUE. I'd have thought that was obvious .. ?

Here's one example of 'untruth' ....

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...793#post767793

In that one, Jim claims that FJ is not a Leftie. Which is absurd, of course. Left-wingers think as Left-wingers (take FJ's insistence upon arguing against austerity measures, something the Greek Lefties, Portuguese Lefties, Ireland's Sinn Fein, AND, now, British Lefties, no less passionately argue). Left-wingers look for chances (or manufacture them if they have none) to attack Conservatives. In FJ's case, he specialises in particularly vitriolic attacks against Conservatives (.. then claims he 'never does' attack them ..).

He also says that FJ is not a fraud, I believe ? Well .. the 'One True Thatcherite' monicker statement is logical proof that he MUST be one !! If 'The One True Thatcherite', then this means that nobody ELSE is .. which denigrates all other Thatcherites .. which is something no 'Thatcherite' would EVER do ...

Care for another ? OK .. post #268 ...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...428#post768428

Here - I am called 'Mr Liberal'.

I'm sure I needn't comment on that one .. especially as, elsewhere, he denies that I am one !!

[fj1200]

I think I come back to an earlier (and fundamental) point. Does libel matter, or doesn't it ?

Repeat after me: There is no libel here.

Truth is indeed always a defence. Which is why, when faced with it, you have to resort to shabby trickery in order to 'evade' statements of it.

You rarely post truth; you post fallacies, bad reasoning skills, obfuscation, and musings from your imagination. When you post truth I'll acknowledge it. And if you don't want me to "correct" your posts then debate something straight up without whining about imagined lefties; you have no shown any ability in that regard.

[Drummond]

You rarely post truth; you post fallacies, bad reasoning skills, obfuscation, and musings from your imagination. When you post truth I'll acknowledge it. And if you don't want me to "correct" your posts then debate something straight up without whining about imagined lefties; you have no shown any ability in that regard.

Just ridiculous. This whole board must know that you've never, even ONCE, acknowledged that you're a Leftie !

Take the point that I keep on posting .. that your 'One True Thatcherite' is logical nonsense, therefore, CANNOT be true. Since what I post is truth .. you should be acknowledging it. But, again, until now at least, you never have.

[Drummond]

My friend , here people are free to make mistakes, tell the truth as they see it, deliberately lie, state opinions be they valid or not, cast aspersions, refuse to reply, distort truth, or standby what they have said with no force levied to force correction or an apology.
To be perfectly frank with you-- if Jim did force people to apologize or tailor their thoughts/statements made, just to placate other member's wishes I 'd leave this forum today!
Are you a liberal? NO!
ARE YOU AS DAMN STUBBORN AS ME! YES! (I admire that myself)
Anybody here that thinks you are a stinking liberal is ffing nuts!
So don't sweat it and just let it drop.
You know I've told you myself--I myself would never apologize on demand.
And if Jim tried to force such -I'd leave..
So, tis best to stop--
A true friend never gives insincere or valueless advice..... ---Tyr

Here's the real truth, Tyr ... this place is a jungle of a forum, where even something as basic as not wanting its OWN STAFF to post untruths about members seems to be asking too much !!!!

Yes, I'm flogging a dead horse. I shouldn't be .. because Conservatives should have a personal sense of reputability, and a need to forever aspire to same. I'm seeing precious little evidence of that, otherwise, I'd have surely had my apology, long ago !!!!

Perhaps British Conservatives really are different from American Conservatives ? These things SHOULD matter. Until now, I'd thought myself to identify more with the American version of Conservatism (to the extent that being a Thatcherite permits it) than my own people. I think that this episode proves me wrong.

I'm completely baffled by what I've been witnessing of late on here. 'Alienated' is perhaps an understatement of it.

[tailfins]

I look forward to your proving that I couldn't apply for a job at my local Conservative association !!

(.. unless, of course, you're suggesting that what's happened here would make it a non-viable task .. ?)

I don't understand the premise of your post. I could volunteer to help the National Association of Colored People fight against being targeted for "driving while black". While racial issues don't interest me, motorist rights do matter to me. It's called "common ground".

[Drummond]

That is not what I was saying...What i meant was that if you applied for a job with a conservative association, what some guy or gal has said about you on the internet it not going to matter, at all, ever.

This makes no sense at all. Being a Conservative Association, their thinking would be aligned to believing that if an assertion is made, then it must be being made in good faith (.. or at least, for a good reason !!!).

However, as you're not a Conservative yourself, maybe you don't comprehend this - which, I suppose, does explain your thinking.

[fj1200]

Just ridiculous. This whole board must know that you've never, even ONCE, acknowledged that you're a Leftie !

Like I said.

You rarely post truth...

Besides, much of this board has acknowledged my conservative cred.