Visit Germany, or Not Visit Germany... That Is The Question...

[pete311]

The reason these tough military men are still alive to post in this forum is because they trust their gut instincts. There's a difference between paranoia and prudence.

And that makes them some savant sages on every matter? Tell me, what is their gut instinct on the futures price of pork bellies tomorrow?

darin and Noir are the only sane people here. Visit Germany and don't think twice about it. There are few countries in the world safer than Germany.

[Gunny]

Here's the deal. Again ... I defer anyone wanting to visit Germany to speak with Darin since he lives there. MY comments are general from having lived in and visited more than a few foreign countries. The story/idea of a trip is getting lost for the politics.

It has been my experience that most foreign countries that attract tourists have "touristy" areas where tourists go, and generally include the sites tourists want to see. In most cases, unless you're just a flat-out, arrogant American asshole, they people in those areas are more tolerant and willing to ignore accidental slights and chalk it up to ignorance while collecting your money. Even in the ME they have certain places for international tourists to go (highly restrictive), but they exist. Even China hasn't dumped Hong Kong because of the tourist money it makes.

Those places are usually as safe as any. Venture off the beaten path, and your risk factor goes up. "The other side of the island" in Phuket, Thailand is NOT the tourist area on the beach.

Now if you want to make a political stance against the government, you'll probably get what you ask for. If you want to ride through ISIS territory on your bicycle? I refer you to the thread.

As for those too numb in the brain to accept the fact that people who are out to kill you and take your shit exist, PLEASE take an overseas vacation. You are wasting natural resources by breathing and Darwin awaits your arrival.

[Drummond]

Is that what you do on a normal day? Or when on holiday? Or ever?

Oh dear. I've proved you wrong and shown everyone here something of the truth of how our society works ... and you've consequently no counter-argument, or contrary evidence, to back up your position.

Well, quite. All you CAN do is go in for something diversionary, instead. Conceding you're wrong isn't something you will EVER do.

A pity. Not surprising, Noir. But, a pity, nonetheless.

[Drummond]

Here's the deal. Again ... I defer anyone wanting to visit Germany to speak with Darin since he lives there. MY comments are general from having lived in and visited more than a few foreign countries. The story/idea of a trip is getting lost for the politics.

It has been my experience that most foreign countries that attract tourists have "touristy" areas where tourists go, and generally include the sites tourists want to see. In most cases, unless you're just a flat-out, arrogant American asshole, they people in those areas are more tolerant and willing to ignore accidental slights and chalk it up to ignorance while collecting your money. Even in the ME they have certain places for international tourists to go (highly restrictive), but they exist. Even China hasn't dumped Hong Kong because of the tourist money it makes.

Those places are usually as safe as any. Venture off the beaten path, and your risk factor goes up. "The other side of the island" in Phuket, Thailand is NOT the tourist area on the beach.

Now if you want to make a political stance against the government, you'll probably get what you ask for. If you want to ride through ISIS territory on your bicycle? I refer you to the thread.

As for those too numb in the brain to accept the fact that people who are out to kill you and take your shit exist, PLEASE take an overseas vacation. You are wasting natural resources by breathing and Darwin awaits your arrival.

Very fair points.

Even so ... visit a foreign country, and, 'aligned to tourist needs' or not, such localities will still have native people in them and the laws of that country will still be in force. And - surely ! - the further down a restrictive 'PC' route any one country has gone, so those laws will restrict freedom of expression.

Try visiting Moscow, and getting into debates about Putin and his power-grabbing ways (to say nothing about Novichok 'adventurism'). See how long it is before such a visitor falls foul of the authorities ...

Germany, though ... I've no real idea what their society is like to visit, these days .. the last time I was in the Frankfurt area was back in the 1990's. Ancient history by today's standards.

[Gunny]

Very fair points.

Even so ... visit a foreign country, and, 'aligned to tourist needs' or not, such localities will still have native people in them and the laws of that country will still be in force. And - surely ! - the further down a restrictive 'PC' route any one country has gone, so those laws will restrict freedom of expression.

Try visiting Moscow, and getting into debates about Putin and his power-grabbing ways (to say nothing about Novichok 'adventurism'). See how long it is before such a visitor falls foul of the authorities ...

Germany, though ... I've no real idea what their society is like to visit, these days .. the last time I was in the Frankfurt area was back in the 1990's. Ancient history by today's standards.

Oops. I left THAT out. You are correct, of course. You have to obey the laws of whatever country you are in. That was the rule when I was a kid as a military dependent and we got Status of Forces Agreement lectures ad nauseum when I was in the Marine Corps.

I take some things for granted. Manners is one. Everyone should have them.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

This thread is so wildly off base it’s borderline hilarious.

I’m glad we have Darin popping in to try and give some sanity and perspective on Germany, meanwhile Drummonds here trying to make the U.K. sound like something altogether unfamiliar ^,^

You some kind of expert on Germany? Spend a lot of time there have you?

I don't see any links providing any sort of rebuttal. I only see your insulting diatribe. Perhaps you should put more effort into some proof for a rebuttal than just running your mouth.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Visit Germany and don't think twice about it. There are few countries in the world safer than Germany.

You are an INCREDIBLY IGNORANT little twat...

Germany Travel Advisory

https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...-advisory.html

[darin]

Nobody can prevent a terror attack. Listed in that travel advisory are things to mitigate the risks...

• Be aware of your surroundings when traveling to tourist locations and crowded public venues. Or avoid most of the touristy locations and let darin set up a terrific tour.
• Follow the instructions of local authorities and darin.
• Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information. And ask darin to check with his sources because he's qualified to teach anti-terrorism courses to both mil and civ employees.
• Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
• Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
• Review the Crime and Safety Reports for Germany.
• U.S. citizens who travel abroad should always have a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler’s Checklist. Further, just trust darin to monitor what's going on and guide you to places that are not priority targets; go to popular places at non-peak days/times. Maintain situational awareness and follow your common sense and instincts.

Absolutely no more risky than touring detroit. I survived Detroit; I survived Iraq. I hosted Nukeman and Trigg and their son and I am quite sure they never felt any threats.

Ya know, on paper most places would have the same mitigation factors as listed above. The worrying about lack of free speech will be a non-issue. The 40,000+ US here have not had a terror or extremist attack against them since probably 1985.

[Noir]

Oh dear. I've proved you wrong and shown everyone here something of the truth of how our society works ... and you've consequently no counter-argument, or contrary evidence, to back up your position.

Well, quite. All you CAN do is go in for something diversionary, instead. Conceding you're wrong isn't something you will EVER do.

A pity. Not surprising, Noir. But, a pity, nonetheless.

You can get arrested in the U.K. under the ‘Race and Hatred relations act’ of course,
in likely much the same way as you can get arrested in Germany for denying the holocaust, but I don’t think that would impair someone’s holiday here, or Germany. Unless you’re looking for it.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

You can get arrested in the U.K. under the ‘Race and Hatred relations act’ of course,
in likely much the same way as you can get arrested in Germany for denying the holocaust, but I don’t think that would impair someone’s holiday here, or Germany. Unless you’re looking for it.

You people are crippled by insane political correctness, censorship and fascism. You are protecting the very thing that will eventually destroy you if it's not stopped, namely, the islamic influx.

Weird how so much of the world, even some there in Europe see it and you don't.

[Noir]

You some kind of expert on Germany? Spend a lot of time there have you?

I don't see any links providing any sort of rebuttal. I only see your insulting diatribe. Perhaps you should put more effort into some proof for a rebuttal than just running your mouth.

Apparently I’ve spent more time in Germany than you, haven’t been murdered yet. Pretty good standard of ice hockey too.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Apparently I’ve spent more time in Germany than you, haven’t been murdered yet. Pretty good standard of ice hockey too.

Apparently you've provided no proof what so ever you've ever been to Germany, and you're still so politically correct you have no idea how foolish you sound to us Americans.

[darin]

You can get arrested in the U.K. under the ‘Race and Hatred relations act’ of course,
in likely much the same way as you can get arrested in Germany for denying the holocaust, but I don’t think that would impair someone’s holiday here, or Germany. Unless you’re looking for it.

My daughter is a staunch libertarian and hates the draconian, fascist restricts of most of the UK. Yet she LOVED London, and will attend university, in all likelihood, in Northern Ireland, as you know.


My point - and probably your point - is this: For people wanting to come and engage in learning the culture, food, history - for wanting to spend time touching historic sites, monuments, and buildings - Europe is an incredible destination.

Some of the realities I see: Isis is not blowing up traffic jams - absolutely vulnerable folks. They are not walking around our malls detonating bombs. They are not accosting people with any regularity. But shit happens.

Last september in Milan I walked out of a mall area near the main cathedral. One of the public trash bins was smoking as if something was burning inside. As I passed i stuck my head over but could see nothing. I moved my daughter and friend quite rapidly away - walking as fast as we could without looking like we were in a panic. Nothing came of the smoking bin, but we were right to un-ass the area asap.

My daughter walking through Amsterdam passed a woman wearing much-much too heavy of a coat for the summer. The woman had a large handbag and she was scuttling along staring at the ground. My daughter and her friend turned right down a side street and then left to put a city block of buildings between her and the woman. Nobody panicked and nobody was truly scared - but she did that simply because her spidey-sense was tingling. Nothing came of it.

When I have guests we travel mid-week as much as we can, and we lay-low on weekends if we can. We see sites at the extreme hours - either right at opening or end of day - but we try to avoid mid-day rushes. That's partly because i hate crowds

So - I'm trying to say, if somebody comes to Germany, specifically, they have to fear nothing more than their own fear. Common-sense awareness is the only measure required to ensure a safe trip. But that is not dissimilar to probably every trip to any destination.

[Noir]

My point - and probably your point - is this: For people wanting to come and engage in learning the culture, food, history - for wanting to spend time touching historic sites, monuments, and buildings - Europe is an incredible destination.

...

So - I'm trying to say, if somebody comes to Germany, specifically, they have to fear nothing more than their own fear. Common-sense awareness is the only measure required to ensure a safe trip. But that is not dissimilar to probably every trip to any destination.

Spot on.

[Gunny]

Nobody can prevent a terror attack. Listed in that travel advisory are things to mitigate the risks...
[/LIST]

Absolutely no more risky than touring detroit. I survived Detroit; I survived Iraq. I hosted Nukeman and Trigg and their son and I am quite sure they never felt any threats.

Ya know, on paper most places would have the same mitigation factors as listed above. The worrying about lack of free speech will be a non-issue. The 40,000+ US here have not had a terror or extremist attack against them since probably 1985.

I think you've overused Darin's name a tad ...