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    Quote Originally Posted by darin View Post
    But what if vaccines aren't effective? What if they have danger to some folks? Making exceptions will not hurt vaccinated people.
    Because, while it is true in EVERY case that vaccines present a danger to the individual, in the overall they are good for the collective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darin View Post
    But what if vaccines aren't effective? What if they have danger to some folks? Making exceptions will not hurt vaccinated people.
    what if aliens are on earth? what if the sea is really made of chocolate pudding? there is a tiny tiny tiny chance someone is allergic to the vaccine. everything you put in your body has a chance to hurt you. ever seen read the full warnings on aspirin? I saw one that mentioned brain hemorrhaging. gonna stop taking it?
    Last edited by pete311; 04-26-2019 at 09:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darin View Post
    But what if vaccines aren't effective? What if they have danger to some folks? Making exceptions will not hurt vaccinated people.
    What if their are babies around or others that are susceptible to disease, due to no fault of their own, from those who voluntarily choose to not vaccinate?

    Funny OT - there was a woman a few months back who's FB stuff made news stories. She had posted on FB something about a breakout or whatever, and that she was taking her child who was never vaccinated because she doesn't believe in it....

    But she made this long post and asked everyone if they knew of any way that she could protect her child from getting the disease. Hmmmmmm, I have an idea for her, as did many others.

    And I've heard some say it causes this that or the other thing and even autism. But how many untold millions around the world are currently getting them in today's age. and how many hundred of millions and then some over the years have been made sick from them? I honestly can't say it does not do anything, as I'm no doctor, but billions of shots later and such a small number of any type of infected... makes me believe those folks are wrong. Seems like the most people tend to get are "side effects" which they tell you u may even experience. Fevers and such.

    I quickly grabbed these from a government site and from the Mayo Clinic.

    ---

    Making the Vaccine Decision

    -As a parent, you want to protect your little one from harm. Before you decide to vaccinate your baby, you may wish to know more about:
    -how vaccines work
    -how vaccines work with your baby’s immune system
    -vaccine side effects/risks
    -vaccine ingredients
    -vaccine safety
    -Use this page to find this information as you make the vaccine decision. If you have more questions, talk with your child’s doctor or see Infant Immunization FAQs for additional information.

    How Vaccines Prevent Diseases

    The diseases vaccines prevent can be dangerous, or even deadly. Vaccines reduce your child’s risk of infection by working with their body’s natural defenses to help them safely develop immunity to disease.

    When germs, such as bacteria or viruses, invade the body, they attack and multiply. This invasion is called an infection, and the infection is what causes illness. The immune system then has to fight the infection. Once it fights off the infection, the body has a supply of cells that help recognize and fight that disease in the future. These supplies of cells are called antibodies.

    Vaccines help develop immunity by imitating an infection, but this “imitation” infection does not cause illness. Instead it causes the immune system to develop the same response as it does to a real infection so the body can recognize and fight the vaccine-preventable disease in the future. Sometimes, after getting a vaccine, the imitation infection can cause minor symptoms, such as fever. Such minor symptoms are normal and should be expected as the body builds immunity.

    As children get older, they require additional doses of some vaccines for best protection. Older kids also need protection against additional diseases they may encounter. Learn more about vaccines for your pre-teens and teens.

    Vaccines and Your Child’s Immune System

    As a parent, you may get upset or concerned when you watch your baby get 3 or 4 shots during a doctor’s visit. But, all of those shots add up to protection for your baby against 14 infectious diseases. Young babies can get very ill from vaccine-preventable diseases.

    The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIPCdc-pdf), a group of medical and public health experts that develops recommendations on how to use vaccines to control diseases in the United States, designs the vaccination schedule. The ACIP designs the vaccination schedule to protect young children before they are likely to be exposed to potentially serious diseases and when they are most vulnerable to serious infections. This is the schedule CDC recommends.

    Although children continue to get several vaccines up to their second birthday, these vaccines do not overload the immune system. Every day, your healthy baby’s immune system successfully fights off thousands of antigens – the parts of germs that cause their immune system to respond. The antigens in vaccines come from weakened or killed germs so they cannot cause serious illness. Even if your child receives several vaccines in one day, vaccines contain only a tiny amount of antigens compared to the antigens your baby encounters every day.

    This is the case even if your child receives combination vaccines. Combination vaccines take two or more vaccines that could be given individually and put them into one shot. Children get the same protection as they do from individual vaccines given separately—but with fewer shots.

    Vaccine Side Effects/Risks

    Like any medication, vaccines can cause side effects. The most common side effects are mild. On the other hand, many vaccine-preventable disease symptoms can be serious, or even deadly. Even though many of these diseases are rare in this country, they still occur around the world. Unvaccinated U.S. citizens who travel abroad can bring these diseases to the U.S., putting unvaccinated children at risk.

    The side effects from vaccines are almost always minor (such as redness and swelling where the shot was given) and go away within a few days. If your child experiences a reaction at the injection site, use a cool, wet cloth to reduce redness, soreness, and swelling.

    Serious side effects after vaccination, such as severe allergic reaction, are very rare and doctors and clinic staff are trained to deal with them. Pay extra attention to your child for a few days after vaccination. If you see something that concerns you, call your child’s doctor.

    Rest - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents...ion/index.html


    Childhood vaccines: Tough questions, straight answers

    Do vaccines cause autism? Is it OK to skip certain vaccines? Get the facts on these and other common questions.

    By Mayo Clinic Staff

    Childhood vaccines protect children from a variety of serious or potentially fatal diseases, including diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, tetanus, whooping cough (pertussis) and others. If these diseases seem uncommon — or even unheard of — it's usually because these vaccines are doing their job.

    Still, you might wonder about the benefits and risks of childhood vaccines. Here are straight answers to common questions about childhood vaccines.

    Is natural immunity better than vaccination?

    A natural infection might provide better immunity than vaccination — but there are serious risks. For example, a natural chickenpox (varicella) infection could lead to pneumonia. A natural polio infection could cause permanent paralysis. A natural mumps infection could lead to deafness. A natural Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) infection could result in permanent brain damage or even death. Vaccination can help prevent these diseases and their potentially serious complications.

    Do vaccines cause autism?

    Vaccines do not cause autism. Despite much controversy on the topic, researchers haven't found a connection between autism and childhood vaccines. In fact, the original study that ignited the debate years ago has been retracted.

    Are vaccine side effects dangerous?

    Any vaccine can cause side effects. Usually, these side effects are minor — a low-grade fever, fussiness and soreness at the injection site. Some vaccines cause a temporary headache, fatigue or loss of appetite. Rarely, a child might experience a severe allergic reaction or a neurological side effect, such as a seizure. Although these rare side effects are a concern, the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm or death is extremely small. The benefits of getting a vaccine are much greater than the possible side effects for almost all children.

    Of course, vaccines aren't given to children who have known allergies to specific vaccine components. Likewise, if your child develops a life-threatening reaction to a particular vaccine, further doses of that vaccine won't be given.

    Rest - https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...s/art-20048334
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Over here in jolly ol' Blighty ... our ever-mighty NHS introduced, quite a few years ago now, the 'MMR' vaccine. 'MMR' stood for 'Mumps, Measles, Rubella'. The aim, as the name suggests, was to pack immunisations for all these three illnesses into one single shot.

    The Almighty State then did its best to indoctrinate people into accepting that the MMR vaccine should be compulsory.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2088426.stm

    A motion at the British Medical Association's annual meeting suggests that baby and childhood vaccination should be compulsory for all unless there are clear medical reasons not to.

    Despite Government insistence that the MMR injection is safe, many parents have refused to give their child the vaccine after a study suggested it may be linked to autism.

    The vaccine is already compulsory in some countries like the US, where children are not allowed to attend school unless they have had the jab.
    This article pre-empts what I was going to suggest in this post .. that it'd only be a matter of time before people in the US were robbed of individual choice on the matter ! Seems that you already are .. ?

    Well ... there was a lot of debate over here as to whether the jab was responsible for some autism 'outbreaks' (I see that was a concern in the US as well). Many parents refused to allow the MMR vaccination in fear of that. I for one don't blame them !

    My point is this: introduce a culture of accepted compulsion into issues such as this, and it can lead, even if only theoretically, to enforced catastrophes. The medical world is ever-evolving its knowledge, and a treatment thought through ignorance to be entirely safe might ultimately prove, years later, NOT to be. Add State-backed compulsion to the mix, and you've a situation where, if individual choice had only been possible, some kids might've been saved from having their lives blighted ... 'By Order'.

    I say: yes, educate. Yes, encourage treatments, always have them available and backed by the fullest known data on them. But ... compulsion ? Definitely not. Sometimes mass treatment programmes can be a good thing, but I can't believe they always, unfailingly, are. ALWAYS permit individual choice - never trample on that.

    The moment you do ... you invite the culture where it can keep happening, en masse. Whether you like it, or not.
    Last edited by Drummond; 04-26-2019 at 11:34 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Over here in jolly ol' Blighty ... our ever-mighty NHS introduced, quite a few years ago now, the 'MMR' vaccine. 'MMR' stood for 'Mumps, Measles, Rubella'. The aim, as the name suggests, was to pack immunisations for all these three illnesses into one single shot.

    The Almighty State then did its best to indoctrinate people into accepting that the MMR vaccine should be compulsory.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/2088426.stm



    This article pre-empts what I was going to suggest in this post .. that it'd only be a matter of time before people in the US were robbed of individual choice on the matter ! Seems that you already are .. ?

    Well ... there was a lot of debate over here as to whether the jab was responsible for some autism 'outbreaks'. Many parents refused to allow the MMR vaccination in fear of that. I for one don't blame them !

    My point is this: introduce a culture of accepted compulsion into issues such as this, and it can lead, even if only theoretically, to enforced catastrophes. The medical world is ever-evolving its knowledge, and a treatment thought through ignorance to be entirely safe might ultimately prove NOT to be. Add State-backed compulsion to the mix, and you've a situation where, if individual choice had only been possible, some kids might've been saved from having their lives blighted ... 'By Order'.

    I say: yes, educate. Yes, encourage treatments, always have them available and backed by the fullest known data on them. But ... compulsion ? Definitely not. Sometimes mass treatment programmes can be a good thing, but I can't believe they always are. ALWAYS permit individual choice - never trample on that.

    The moment you do ... you invite the culture where it can keep happening, en masse. Whether you like it, or not.
    NO ONE is forced to vaccinate. You can choose to home school your unvaccinated children, or send them to a private school that does not vaccinate.

    It is, of course, completely illogical to suggest that the government doesn't have a right to set rules for who may or may not attend their schools

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    Hey Drummond!

    Folks do have a choice to get them or not - it's just that you NEED them in certain circumstances. For example, at school - a MAJOR shared environment, when parents sign up their children, one of the first things they ask for is doctor paperwork showing various shots that were given and the dates. I'm ALL for that. The health of the majority in those cases should prevail.

    It's just that if you DON'T get them done, then schools for one won't let you register, and understandable. There are various other reasons/places that will also ask for these records. If folks choose not to vaccinate, then they are perhaps giving up their abilities to go certain places and register at some places. Usually shared environment type places. A lot of it is even more important if the children or even adults are traveling abroad to countries where these diseases aren't treated properly and vaccinations aren't the same as in the US - so folks need to not only ensure their own regular vaccinations have been done - but man get all kinds of additional shots when preparing to go to places in Africa, for example. Otherwise, they are much more likely to get infected when traveling to such places. My friend traveled to India once too and told me he get a bevy of shots so he didn't get all kinds of fevers I never even heard of! LOL

    BUT, I agree with a man/woman's rights to be in charge of what goes in their own bodies, and not by force. And it remains so. But at the end of the day, if one does enough research, while there may be a fair amount of anti-vaxxer sites and other things you can find out that people are afraid of - and you'll find about 75,000% more information that shows what it does and protects and the lives its saved over the years, and what often happens to those who choose against. Read, learn, inform ones self - and then make the educated choice. But I think all proper avenues of research will lead on to the doc to get those vaccinations.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Hey Drummond!

    Folks do have a choice to get them or not - it's just that you NEED them in certain circumstances. For example, at school - a MAJOR shared environment, when parents sign up their children, one of the first things they ask for is doctor paperwork showing various shots that were given and the dates. I'm ALL for that. The health of the majority in those cases should prevail.

    It's just that if you DON'T get them done, then schools for one won't let you register, and understandable. There are various other reasons/places that will also ask for these records. If folks choose not to vaccinate, then they are perhaps giving up their abilities to go certain places and register at some places. Usually shared environment type places. A lot of it is even more important if the children or even adults are traveling abroad to countries where these diseases aren't treated properly and vaccinations aren't the same as in the US - so folks need to not only ensure their own regular vaccinations have been done - but man get all kinds of additional shots when preparing to go to places in Africa, for example. Otherwise, they are much more likely to get infected when traveling to such places. My friend traveled to India once too and told me he get a bevy of shots so he didn't get all kinds of fevers I never even heard of! LOL

    BUT, I agree with a man/woman's rights to be in charge of what goes in their own bodies, and not by force. And it remains so. But at the end of the day, if one does enough research, while there may be a fair amount of anti-vaxxer sites and other things you can find out that people are afraid of - and you'll find about 75,000% more information that shows what it does and protects and the lives its saved over the years, and what often happens to those who choose against. Read, learn, inform ones self - and then make the educated choice. But I think all proper avenues of research will lead on to the doc to get those vaccinations.
    It's really no different than you don't HAVE to get a state ID, but if you don't, there are lots of things you can't do.

    Of course, what makes me laugh is that this logic is only allowed under certain circumstances by various people. For example, say "hey the state has a right to insist that you are drug free before you receive any welfare" and quite a few people go ape shit.

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    I still look at it as a Rights issue. You have the right to die of the measles if you want as far as I'm concerned. Your Rights end where my Right to not be endangered begin. I've never understood the argument and usually, it comes up when some ideologically-driven parent has refused treatment for their child(ren) and one suffers the consequences. I think that's bullshit.

    THIS is just my opinion and guesswork (so don't look for a link ) but my guess in this particular for instance noting the location of the outbreak, I'd say the shit is comming across the Southern border.

    Not that I'd be into stirring up more shit on the topic
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I still look at it as a Rights issue. You have the right to die of the measles if you want as far as I'm concerned. Your Rights end where my Right to not be endangered begin. I've never understood the argument and usually, it comes up when some ideologically-driven parent has refused treatment for their child(ren) and one suffers the consequences. I think that's bullshit.

    THIS is just my opinion and guesswork (so don't look for a link ) but my guess in this particular for instance noting the location of the outbreak, I'd say the shit is comming across the Southern border.

    Not that I'd be into stirring up more shit on the topic
    Not from migrants, throughout country in enclaves of what used to be yuppies. Ijits bought into fake autism, missed that it was fake


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Not from migrants, throughout country in enclaves of what used to be yuppies. Ijits bought into fake autism, missed that it was fake
    If folks would actually research in depth, which I don't blame anyone, they would find the answers. I guarantee you that many of these so called "anti-vaxxers" are more the activist type and more than likely get a lot of their information from poor places and word of mouth and nothing but anti-vaxxer websites. There are websites out there that claim the autism and other things and convince others to refrain, but the proof the offer isn't much proof at all. Whereas the sicknesses and deaths from those choosing to vaccinate speaks for itself, IMO.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    If folks would actually research in depth, which I don't blame anyone, they would find the answers. I guarantee you that many of these so called "anti-vaxxers" are more the activist type and more than likely get a lot of their information from poor places and word of mouth and nothing but anti-vaxxer websites. There are websites out there that claim the autism and other things and convince others to refrain, but the proof the offer isn't much proof at all. Whereas the sicknesses and deaths from those choosing to vaccinate speaks for itself, IMO.
    It started with a Lancet article, at the time, a highly regarded British Medical Journal. About a year later, Lancet published that the study was fake, they took the blame for not researching it as should have. Took big hit, but the harm was already done.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    To get involved in high school athletics -especially football, wrestling, track,
    or baseball - we were required to get a tetanus shot. That was done in early
    August before the school session began and went on our record.

    I got used to needles and like @Gunny said, ended feeling like a pincushion!
    Military branches make all sorts of vaccinations mandatory. Only ones I refused, and went on
    record were annual flu shots, because they made me sick, and Anthrax because I was not going
    to be deployed overseas nor would I be exposed to that germ.
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Hey Drummond!

    Folks do have a choice to get them or not - it's just that you NEED them in certain circumstances. For example, at school - a MAJOR shared environment, when parents sign up their children, one of the first things they ask for is doctor paperwork showing various shots that were given and the dates. I'm ALL for that. The health of the majority in those cases should prevail.

    It's just that if you DON'T get them done, then schools for one won't let you register, and understandable. There are various other reasons/places that will also ask for these records. If folks choose not to vaccinate, then they are perhaps giving up their abilities to go certain places and register at some places. Usually shared environment type places. A lot of it is even more important if the children or even adults are traveling abroad to countries where these diseases aren't treated properly and vaccinations aren't the same as in the US - so folks need to not only ensure their own regular vaccinations have been done - but man get all kinds of additional shots when preparing to go to places in Africa, for example. Otherwise, they are much more likely to get infected when traveling to such places. My friend traveled to India once too and told me he get a bevy of shots so he didn't get all kinds of fevers I never even heard of! LOL

    BUT, I agree with a man/woman's rights to be in charge of what goes in their own bodies, and not by force. And it remains so. But at the end of the day, if one does enough research, while there may be a fair amount of anti-vaxxer sites and other things you can find out that people are afraid of - and you'll find about 75,000% more information that shows what it does and protects and the lives its saved over the years, and what often happens to those who choose against. Read, learn, inform ones self - and then make the educated choice. But I think all proper avenues of research will lead on to the doc to get those vaccinations.
    I see your overall point.

    But though I follow the logic of safeguarding against outbreaks of disease having to be safeguarded against, and bureaucratic exclusion measures taken to further that safeguarding effort .... still, there's something of a fine line to be drawn against doing something because you feel it's necessary for the greater good, and allowing authorities to instill a psychology in people that makes them feel the need to defer to authoritarian directives, just because they're told to.

    I feel that the greater the deference to such 'diktats', the greater the degree of dictation society will (if the Left has its way) foist upon its population. Ultimately it is a question of how far you 'reasonably' go, to erode individual rights.

    I've never, ever, been vaccinated against anything. Such vaccinations existed even when I was a kid, but my mother was firmly against taking any 'risk' with them, as she saw it. So, I never had any.

    Had I been born around 40 years later ... she might've similarly prevailed, but, I'm in no doubt that the societal pressures to conform to 'expectations' would've been far greater.

    If anyone needs to know .. I've been healthy throughout my life (a touch of high blood pressure, true; not helped if Labour wins an election here ... but otherwise, perfectly fine ... and a near-perfect work attendance record throughout my working life). If my example is anything to go by, the 'need' to mass-vaccinate is overly exaggerated, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Drummond; 04-26-2019 at 04:29 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    the 'need' to mass-vaccinate is overly exaggerated, in my opinion.


    Good grief.

    On a related note I recently watched an amazing short video about a man who is still using an iron lung after contracting polio as a child, he was able to become a successful lawyer. He’s also concerned about polio resurfacing because of ignorant parents.

    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I see your overall point.

    But though I follow the logic of safeguarding against outbreaks of disease having to be safeguarded against, and bureaucratic exclusion measures taken to further that safeguarding effort .... still, there's something of a fine line to be drawn against doing something because you feel it's necessary for the greater good, and allowing authorities to instill a psychology in people that makes them feel the need to defer to authoritarian directives, just because they're told to.

    I feel that the greater the deference to such 'diktats', the greater the degree of dictation society will (if the Left has its way) foist upon its population. Ultimately it is a question of how far you 'reasonably' go, to erode individual rights.

    I've never, ever, been vaccinated against anything. Such vaccinations existed even when I was a kid, but my mother was firmly against taking any 'risk' with them, as she saw it. So, I never had any.

    Had I been born around 40 years later ... she might've similarly prevailed, but, I'm in no doubt that the societal pressures to conform to 'expectations' would've been far greater.

    If anyone needs to know .. I've been healthy throughout my life (a touch of high blood pressure, true; not helped if Labour wins an election here ... but otherwise, perfectly fine ... and a near-perfect work attendance record throughout my working life). If my example is anything to go by, the 'need' to mass-vaccinate is overly exaggerated, in my opinion.
    All very well written and stated.

    You KNOW I'm concerned about individual rights, and in more ways than just this subject, that's for sure! But even in this case, citizens do have the right to NOT get these shots. But since there have been various kinds of outbreaks at schools and other places over the decades, they implement THEIR requirements to attend their particular school, or some sporting teams and events as pointed out. That's another area where the physical interaction between people is a lot more than just being in the same classroom. And in many cases, getting hit with their sweat and even saliva at times (don't ask) LOL. And then if a kid gets a cold at a school, you will have some parents that will cry bloody murder. And do NOT let it be a child with a peanut allergy, for example. Their also very susceptible and can have bad symptoms from just being next to someone eating a peanut butter sandwich. Imagine that kid ends up in the hospital, or worse, the school has to have him brought there, and then Mom gets a call and gets frantic. Bloody murder again! And then out comes the brigades and the come changes. So you can only imagine my next few sentences if it were to next be about a school having someone brought to the hospital somehow because they know the kid is sick from measles, mumps, chickenpox or any other such infectious diseases! Bloody murder won't even be enough for some. ALL the schools fault, of course.

    I'm glad you're happy and healthy after many years!! And a perfect attendance? I had trouble doing that for a week!! LOL

    As to the last part - were you ever 100% for sure exposed into a room at school or otherwise where someone was there with the measles, chickenpox or one of the other bad ones?

    Each state here has different laws on specifically what vaccines you need for school. On average across it's like 5 of them, but here are the main they check for. I'm curious if ever exposed to any? Or if you ever saw many outbreaks of any of them in the UK?

    Hepatitis B
    Diptheria and Tetanus in one shot
    Influenza type B
    PCV
    IPV (polio)
    (Ct is the only state that actually mandates the Flu shot for school)
    Measles, Mumps & Rubella in one shot
    Chickenpox
    Hepatitis A

    That's the list, but each state is different as to which is a requirement. Common, which I had, was the Hep B, Diptheria/Tetanus, IPV, MMR & Chickenpox. ---- I was near, or in or around definitely Chickenpox, Flu many times - and right now there is a major issue with measles going around - and I'm sure glad I'm not near it!!
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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