UK wasn't prepared - and initially failed?

[Kathianne]

I've never got that impression from Drummond. He's hard to follow at times. Especially whe he starts using the terms "liberal", "conservative" and/or "labour". They don't mean the same thing there as they do here.

If Drummond hates the left in the UK, look what the left has done to the UK. Its hate crime laws alone are ridiculous, BUT, EXACTLY what the left is trying to do here.

Anyway, I just get the idea he's loke the rest of us and wants his country back Hell, remember the 70s here? Pretty bad but I prefer then to now here.

I'm not nostalgic for the past, other than letting kids, be kids. I'm grateful for what was accomplished back then, we enjoy the fruits every bit as much as we do those from 1776, 1885, 1945, etc. We have the good and bad, we don't get to choose.

If we are unhappy, sure bitch a bit, then try to change it. If impossible, be grateful for what you do have or find someplace more to your liking. It's why I am in AZ rather than IL right now. It's how I've made job choices, etc.

I wouldn't quit a job, without a new one. I would not stay longer than I must, but would do my best until the end.

It's the way I was raised.

[Drummond]

I meant that while you are saying that IF Britain acted more like America, control the 'liberals' the country would return to what it should be. Still you argue that for over 1/2 your life, that isn't the way she goes.

I see (sort of).

You really don't understand, do you ?

You SHOULD understand, better than this ! I've already been effusive enough, on other threads and at other times, about how it is that I come to think as I do. I'm conscious that in answering you, I'm covering old ground.

Oh, well. Here we go again, then ....

My society's history is different to yours. Politically, it's already swung to such extremes, known such stresses and strains, that you've not only not experienced any equivalent of, but probably would struggle to even imagine.

I argue against the Left, be it my country's version of it, or yours. But with me, it isn't just that I hold a view which makes me THINK I'm right: I absolutely KNOW with CERTAINTY that I'm right. It isn't a matter of debate with me, but certain knowledge of being right.

I know this: the Left has its worldview, and its political imperatives, and it'll sink to any level, do anything at all, to win through with them. It's intensely propagandist, and will insist its propaganda succeeds. If you're anti-Islam for whatever reason, you're automatically bigoted and racist, and all proof to the contrary is dismissed and subject to hate campaigns.

The Left is extremely pro-Union, and vice versa. Unions here have done enormous damage, to trading infrastructure, peoples' livelihoods, and we needed Margaret Thatcher to pass laws just to keep them in check !

Regardless -- twice in our history, Union leaders have worked to depose lawfully elected Conservative Governments. Arthur Scargill tried it in 1984, but failed. Earlier, Ted Heath was successfully deposed in early 1974 (the Three Day Working Week ... look it up !), Labour were elected ... and within two years, we knew 26 percent inflation and a devaluation of the Pound.

So, tell me, Kath: does America have equivalents of this, in its history ? AND, isn't it a GOOD thing when you elect a President, and Administration, who'd never in a million years stand for any such destruction being so much as threatened against American society ??

I know, repeat, KNOW, that the Left's influence must be defeated. I know what you'll suffer if it isn't. Yes, I'll 'rah-rah' my support for President Trump, Kath ... because, without realising it, you need a President of his standing.

Or would you rather America suffered what my society has done, before you come to see that I might actually be justified ??

I celebrate that America hasn't suffered what the UK has. I have no wish whatever to see that it risks doing so.

I invite you to agree with me that it shouldn't.

[Kathianne]

I see (sort of).

You really don't understand, do you ?

You SHOULD understand, better than this ! I've already been effusive enough, on other threads and at other times, about how it is that I come to think as I do. I'm conscious that in answering you, I'm covering old ground.

Oh, well. Here we go again, then ....

My society's history is different to yours. Politically, it's already swung to such extremes, known such stresses and strains, that you've not only not experienced any equivalent of, but probably would struggle to even imagine.

I argue against the Left, be it my country's version of it, or yours. But with me, it isn't just that I hold a view which makes me THINK I'm right: I absolutely KNOW with CERTAINTY that I'm right. It isn't a matter of debate with me, but certain knowledge of being right.

I know this: the Left has its worldview, and its political imperatives, and it'll sink to any level, do anything at all, to win through with them. It's intensely propagandist, and will insist its propaganda succeeds. If you're anti-Islam for whatever reason, you're automatically bigoted and racist, and all proof to the contrary is dismissed and subject to hate campaigns.

The Left is extremely pro-Union, and vice versa. Unions here have done enormous damage, to trading infrastructure, peoples' livelihoods, and we needed Margaret Thatcher to pass laws just to keep them in check !

Regardless -- twice in our history, Union leaders have worked to depose lawfully elected Conservative Governments. Arthur Scargill tried it in 1984, but failed. Earlier, Ted Heath was successfully deposed in early 1974 (the Three Day Working Week ... look it up !), Labour were elected ... and within two years, we knew 26 percent inflation and a devaluation of the Pound.

So, tell me, Kath: does America have equivalents of this, in its history ? AND, isn't it a GOOD thing when you elect a President, and Administration, who'd never in a million years stand for any such destruction being so much as threatened against American society ??

I know, repeat, KNOW, that the Left's influence must be defeated. I know what you'll suffer if it isn't. Yes, I'll 'rah-rah' my support for President Trump, Kath ... because, without realising it, you need a President of his standing.

Or would you rather America suffered what my society has done, before you come to see that I might actually be justified ??

I celebrate that America hasn't suffered what the UK has. I have no wish whatever to see that it risks doing so.

I invite you to agree with me that it shouldn't.

So I ask you, you choose to live there. Why?

[Drummond]

I've never got that impression from Drummond. He's hard to follow at times. Especially whe he starts using the terms "liberal", "conservative" and/or "labour". They don't mean the same thing there as they do here.

If Drummond hates the left in the UK, look what the left has done to the UK. Its hate crime laws alone are ridiculous, BUT, EXACTLY what the left is trying to do here.

Anyway, I just get the idea he's loke the rest of us and wants his country back Hell, remember the 70s here? Pretty bad but I prefer then to now here.

THANK YOU, GUNNY ! YOU GET ME.

You understand.

Why Kath doesn't, is beyond me to understand. I've just posted a 'War & Peace' sized epistle aimed at Kathianne, which says things I've already made clear in other posts, on other threads. Hopefully, now, Kath will understand.

The Left has been ruinous to us ... materially so, in decades past, and now, in terms of what they insist they successfully indoctrinate us with. I certainly 'get' that Kath will have no conception of such dangers being manifest in America, but even so, I've explained myself more than once on all this already.

Regardless of what Kathianne may think of Trump, he's one hell of an antidote to all of the evils I have described. He may not be perfect. But, trust me ... you, Kath, so many other Americans, would hate the alternative he stands so firmly against.

[Kathianne]

THANK YOU, GUNNY ! YOU GET ME.

You understand.

Why Kath doesn't, is beyond me to understand. I've just posted a 'War & Peace' sized epistle aimed at Kathianne, which says things I've already made clear in other posts, on other threads. Hopefully, now, Kath will understand.

The Left has been ruinous to us ... materially so, in decades past, and now, in terms of what they insist they successfully indoctrinate us with. I certainly 'get' that Kath will have no conception of such dangers being manifest in America, but even so, I've explained myself more than once on all this already.

Regardless of what Kathianne may think of Trump, he's one hell of an antidote to all of the evils I have described. He may not be perfect. But, trust me ... you, Kath, so many other Americans, would hate the alternative he stands so firmly against.

Then I'm more confused than ever, why do you stay in such a hell hole?

[Drummond]

So I ask you, you choose to live there. Why?

Maybe it's because I don't want the upheaval of moving away ... I am definitely no youngster, and I've become set in my ways, at least to some extent.

But that isn't all of it. I know how my society is faring, I know why, I've some conception of the road it's not only following, but what its likely destination is. Tell me, why shouldn't I want to stand in opposition to it ?

Why do you think I should find it appropriate to just 'run away' ?

Do you know what they say about rats leaving a sinking ship ?

Some of us don't run. I see no reason why I should ... why it should be 'expected' of me, by you, or anyone.

Am I making myself clear, now ?

[Gunny]

I'm not nostalgic for the past, other than letting kids, be kids. I'm grateful for what was accomplished back then, we enjoy the fruits every bit as much as we do those from 1776, 1885, 1945, etc. We have the good and bad, we don't get to choose.

If we are unhappy, sure bitch a bit, then try to change it. If impossible, be grateful for what you do have or find someplace more to your liking. It's why I am in AZ rather than IL right now. It's how I've made job choices, etc.

I wouldn't quit a job, without a new one. I would not stay longer than I must, but would do my best until the end.

It's the way I was raised.

Nostalgic? Maybe. I was thinking more in terms of personal freedom. That's how I was raised

[Drummond]

Then I'm more confused than ever, why do you stay in such a hell hole?

Just answered.

Why do you want me to run away ? Please explain that.

Is that what everyone like me should do, by your reckoning ?

Why would you want that ?

[Kathianne]

Just answered.

Why do you want me to run away ? Please explain that.

Is that what everyone like me should do, by your reckoning ?

Why would you want that ?

You write 5-10k words to explain how the US MUST GUARD against becoming UK like. But you stay? At this moment in time, though it seems you fear we could become the UK, the US seems more the way you want. I'm just confused, as your persistent argument is that it seems beyond time for the UK to turn it around and the US seems, in your opinion, to head the same-with a Trump pause.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Kat , you are wrong. Drummond has zero hate for USA. In fact he cares far more for USA than any damn dem politician alive and far more than most ordinary dem voters that constantly betray this nation with their ideology and their damn votes.
I think I may know my friend Drummond far better than any other member here does.
He is certainly pro-american in his thinking.
I too have asked him why he does not relocate to USA, since in my opinion Britain will eventually fall to Islam and be under its control.
He basically refuses to run away-- that my friend is courage. Same as I too, refuse to ever run away from this my home, my nation.
Choosing instead to stay to fight if need be for what I cherish.
His description of Britain and the lunacy of its politicians is spot on. As is his description of what that lunacy has done to its culture.
It may be that we fail to properly understand his words--but I damn sure know for sure that he does not hate this country and does not
think it proper to abandon his own country for what future safety may lie here.
Just my two cents worth my friend.--Tyr

[Gunny]

THANK YOU, GUNNY ! YOU GET ME.

You understand.

Why Kath doesn't, is beyond me to understand. I've just posted a 'War & Peace' sized epistle aimed at Kathianne, which says things I've already made clear in other posts, on other threads. Hopefully, now, Kath will understand.

The Left has been ruinous to us ... materially so, in decades past, and now, in terms of what they insist they successfully indoctrinate us with. I certainly 'get' that Kath will have no conception of such dangers being manifest in America, but even so, I've explained myself more than once on all this already.

Regardless of what Kathianne may think of Trump, he's one hell of an antidote to all of the evils I have described. He may not be perfect. But, trust me ... you, Kath, so many other Americans, would hate the alternative he stands so firmly against.

Where I think it all begins? I speak English. You speak English. Kathianne speaks English.

Kathianne and I do not speak the same English you do. Even when we do, it can mean something completely different to one and the other. For instance : "Lorri" is a girl's name here, not a truck. We wear a boot; we don't keep our "spanner" (tire iron here) and spare in or on it. "Bonnet" is what little girls wear on their heads.

Conservative here is us. Reading above, I get the impression you are behind the guy noir hates for PM, but not Hunt yet Hunt is a "conservative"? Your government is more jacked up than mine is

[Kathianne]

Kat , you are wrong. Drummond has zero hate for USA. In fact he cares far more for USA than any damn dem politician alive and far more than most ordinary dem voters that constantly betray this nation with their ideology and their damn votes.
I think I may know my friend Drummond far better than any other member here does.
He is certainly pro-american in his thinking.
I too have asked him why he does not relocate to USA, since in my opinion Britain will eventually fall to Islam and be under its control.
He basically refuses to run away-- that my friend is courage. Same as I too, refuse to ever run away from this my home, my nation.
Choosing instead to stay to fight if need be for what I cherish.
His description of Britain and the lunacy of its politicians is spot on. As is his description of what that lunacy has done to its culture.
It may be that we fail to properly understand his words--but I damn sure know for sure that he does not hate this country and does not
think it proper to abandon his own country for what future safety may lie here.
Just my two cents worth my friend.--Tyr

Tyr, I totally agree. If anything I think he should be here. I think you misunderstood my point. It seems both Drummond and Gunny did too, it is my fault.

[Drummond]

You write 5-10k words to explain how the US MUST GUARD against becoming UK like. But you stay? At this moment in time, though it seems you fear we could become the UK, the US seems more the way you want. I'm just confused, as your persistent argument is that it seems beyond time for the UK to turn it around and the US seems, in your opinion, to head the same-with a Trump pause.

I'm having difficulty in understanding what you say is your confusion. Are you sure it isn't just that you'd rather not understand ?

I don't know what more I can say to make myself clearer. You say it yourself: my argument is a persistent one .. and yes, it is.

My impression is that, for whatever precise reason, you much prefer to stand in opposition to it.

I'd like to know why that is .. truthfully. What is the nature of your real opposition ?

Is it just that you cannot believe what I've described to you ? Because, if that's it, the answer for you would be to do the proper research. I'll offer you subjects for that research, shall I ?

Try checking out, then, literature, websites, photos, critiques, on:

• The Three Day Working Week

• The Winter of Discontent

• Arthur Scargill

• Sid Weighell

• 'Red Robbo'

• 1976: 26 percent inflation, devaluation of the Pound

• Morticians' Strike

• Ambulance Dispute

• Firefighters' Strikes (we needed Army intervention on that one, as well as the Ambulance one).

Read up on all of this, Kath. And, more ... chart the progress, and statutory implementations of, 'hatespeech' laws. Know that to speak out, publicly, against Islam is actionable in law.

Check it all out.

When you have, mull over the simple fact that Donald Trump and his style of Presidency wouldn't tolerate ANY of this, AT ALL.

And my suggestion, is ... thank your lucky stars that's so.

[Gunny]

You write 5-10k words to explain how the US MUST GUARD against becoming UK like. But you stay? At this moment in time, though it seems you fear we could become the UK, the US seems more the way you want. I'm just confused, as your persistent argument is that it seems beyond time for the UK to turn it around and the US seems, in your opinion, to head the same-with a Trump pause.

Sounds about right to me.

Are you asking why he stays?

[Kathianne]

I'm having difficulty in understanding what you say is your confusion. Are you sure it isn't just that you'd rather not understand ?

I don't know what more I can say to make myself clearer. You say it yourself: my argument is a persistent one .. and yes, it is.

My impression is that, for whatever precise reason, you much prefer to stand in opposition to it.

I'd like to know why that is .. truthfully. What is the nature of your real opposition ?

Is it just that you cannot believe what I've described to you ? Because, if that's it, the answer for you would be to do the proper research. I'll offer you subjects for that research, shall I ?

Try checking out, then, literature, websites, photos, critiques, on:

• The Three Day Working Week

• The Winter of Discontent

• Arthur Scargill

• Sid Weighell

• 'Red Robbo'

• 1976: 26 percent inflation, devaluation of the Pound

• Morticians' Strike

• Ambulance Dispute

• Firefighters' Strikes (we needed Army intervention on that one, as well as the Ambulance one).

Read up on all of this, Kath. And, more ... chart the progress, and statutory implementations of, 'hatespeech' laws. Know that to speak out, publicly, against Islam is actionable in law.

Check it all out.

When you have, mull over the simple fact that Donald Trump and his style of Presidency wouldn't tolerate ANY of this, AT ALL.

And my suggestion, is ... thank your lucky stars that's so.

Nah, I'm not being deflected here. I will take Tyr's word for it, you stay there as the last brick for the corrupt government to crush. I guess that is the answer.