Britain Nov. 1st Election?

[Drummond]

and if Boris went to an election, and lost, who would be to blame for the ‘broken promise’ then?

I'm not sure I'm following this.

Is there an automatic assumption on your part that Labour would win that election ? State your basis for the 'certainty' that this would be the outcome.

Labour could 'win', but so narrowly that they failed to command a Commons majority. Cue, then, more of the mess we've been witnessing these last several months; with the added complication of who they'd have to share power with, to so much as run a functioning Government .. AND .. the demands those other allied Parties might make.

Then again, consider the stunning success the Brexit Party had, and the great electoral support they gained, just mere WEEKS after their very formation !! So ... imagine them having the balance of power, in a Labour minority Government. What, Noir, do you think THEY would demand, in return for support ?

Go on. Take a wild guess ...

So don't be too sure that Boris's promise wouldn't be met, even IF unavoidably delayed by the shortest of margins.

Who knows. It's not totally impossible for the Brexit Party to win outright. Not from last May's showing, I suggest !

No, I think that - utterly disgusting and reprehensible though it'd be - the most tactically sound decision Labour could take would be to seize power, as McDonnell has threatened. Would it finish them for all time as a Party 'true to democratic principle' ? Absolutely, YES.

But if Corbyn is so short-sighted as to only care about grabbing power ASAP and stopping Brexit, he'll have to take that 'coup' route.

I can believe he will, if he gets the chance.

[Kathianne]

I'm back to seeing a sort of lack of functionalism to your system.

[Drummond]

I'm back to seeing a sort of lack of functionalism to your system.

I can understand that perception.

I don't see it as being a fault of our system, though. Rather, this is all down to individuals being voted into a position of power, then abusing that power.

How many Labour MP's represent a 'Remain' position, in complete defiance of what their constituencies want from them ?

All, repeat, ALL, Labour MP's are now members of a Party whose stated position at the time of our last election was different to the present pro-Remain one !!

Both major Parties have seen individual MP's rebelling against their own Parties over Brexit. It's created a dyfunctional mess.

Labour's position of so much as considering seizing power, MINUS the convention of a mandating General Election occurring, is another example of an abuse of power (this is why the Queen would have to Constitutionally rubber-stamp the move).

Had everything instead gone according to the proper route of democratic accountability, we'd have left the EU in March. Rebel spanner-throwing, in defiance of democratic mandate, put paid to that.

The system isn't the problem. Those defying it, and their responsibilities, IS.

[Noir]

I'm not sure I'm following this.

Is there an automatic assumption on your part that Labour would win that election ? State your basis for the 'certainty' that this would be the outcome.

I think in the case of a general election both Labour and Conservatives will lose seats, Lib Dem’s and Brexit Party will gain. It is unknown if a Remain party’s or Leave party’s would be able to form a majority.

If boris lost a vote of no-confidence, but refused to accept it, then pushed through Brexit, and then lost the election that followed, lol.

[Drummond]

I think in the case of a general election both Labour and Conservatives will lose seats, Lib Dem’s and Brexit Party will gain. It is unknown if a Remain party’s or Leave party’s would be able to form a majority.

If boris lost a vote of no-confidence, but refused to accept it, then pushed through Brexit, and then lost the election that followed, lol.

Things are as messy as anyone can imagine. You may be right. There's no way to judge who will gain (or lose) seats, not as things stand. Labour support is dire, thanks in part to their defying the 2016 Referendum, also partly because they've only recently managed to clarify their official status as a pro-Remain Party.

Conservative support ... also not doing well. There's the stagnation of progress thanks to Mrs May .. and her chronically myopic zeal in seeing the agreed deal as the ONLY possible route forwards ... which was very decisively voted down repeatedly. The general public, I think rightly, blame the Conservatives for that (the rebels added to that dysfunctionality, of course).

I think that Boris, because of his refreshing approach, CAN win outright. But there's no way to judge the likelihood of that. I'd say that if anyone can do it for the Conservatives, Boris can.

Then again ... the Brexit Party may leech much-needed votes from either main Party. They'll pick up votes from disaffected Labour supporters, who are from constituencies currently Labour 'represented' but voted to leave ......

I think that Boris will be very wise to avoid calling an election, even if he loses a No Confidence vote. Unorthodox or not, there's too much of a mess out there to work out what chance (if any) he really has to win. This'll maybe see Labour attempt their electoral coup .. which will kill them as a Party viewable as fit to be part of a democratic system !!

Possible third-Party allegiances permitting, Labour MAY win out in the short term. Just what they win, and what they can do, may be dictated to them by whoever props them up !

And in the longer term, they'll not be forgiven ... for defying the Referendum, for seizing power unelected, for betraying their formerly loyal voter base who really, actually, believed their 2017 Manifesto pledges ! I think it's very possible that a Corbyn-led Labour Party in Government may be the very last Labour Government we'll EVER see !

Brexit may be the dagger that stabs the Labour Party to death.

[Noir]

I think that Boris will be very wise to avoid calling an election, even if he loses a No Confidence vote. Unorthodox or not

“Unorthodox”

You’re happy to have an executive continue to rule by ignoring a no-confidence ruling, meanwhile you harp on about ‘the democratic process’ that you think the opposition are abusing. You’ve never been shy in broadcasting your hypocrisy, but come on.

[Drummond]

“Unorthodox”

You’re happy to have an executive continue to rule by ignoring a no-confidence ruling, meanwhile you harp on about ‘the democratic process’ that you think the opposition are abusing. You’ve never been shy in broadcasting your hypocrisy, but come on.

I'll take no abuse from you, Noir ... is that crystal clear ??

Boris is doing everything he possibly can to bring Brexit to the conclusion that the 2016 Referendum mandates. Finishing this is an already overdue task, thanks to the combined vandalism of rebel MP's, and, OF COURSE, Labour !! If you consider anything 'hypocritical' or 'undemocratic' in Boris's conduct, when all he's doing is OBEYING THE WILL OF THE ELECTORATE, then that in itself is offensive.

I want you, Noir, to admit that Labour has betrayed its voters. It is no longer loyal to its own 2017 Manifesto, instead choosing to betray all those who voted the current crop of Labour MP's to where they are, believing they were going to DO what THEY SAID THEY'D DO, IN PARLIAMENT.

Given all this, what exactly would that No Confidence motion represent, if not Labour's efforts to further defy its own electorate ??

Chew on that one -- and desist from further insults, please !

[High_Plains_Drifter]

So @Noir... could you explain exactly what it is you find so objectionable about Brexit?

I know you dont' answer me so, pretend you're not. Pretend you're addressing everyone else on the board....

[Noir]

I'll take no abuse from you, Noir ... is that crystal clear ??

Boris is doing everything he possibly can to bring Brexit to the conclusion that the 2016 Referendum mandates. Finishing this is an already overdue task, thanks to the combined vandalism of rebel MP's, and, OF COURSE, Labour !! If you consider anything 'hypocritical' or 'undemocratic' in Boris's conduct, when all he's doing is OBEYING THE WILL OF THE ELECTORATE, then that in itself is offensive.

I want you, Noir, to admit that Labour has betrayed its voters. It is no longer loyal to its own 2017 Manifesto, instead choosing to betray all those who voted the current crop of Labour MP's to where they are, believing they were going to DO what THEY SAID THEY'D DO, IN PARLIAMENT.

Given all this, what exactly would that No Confidence motion represent, if not Labour's efforts to further defy its own electorate ??

Chew on that one -- and desist from further insults, please !

Sure man, sorry for “abusing” and “insulting” you by point out you are stating that the opposition parties are trying to abuse the democratic process by motioning a vote of no confidence that could lead to a general election, while you don’t believe it’s undemocratic or an abuse of power for an executive to ignore a lost vote of no confidence and refuse to hold an election

[Noir]

Reports from inside Downing Street that staff holidays/leave have been cancelled until November. So the smart money is a late October election. Joy.

[Drummond]

Sure man, sorry for “abusing” and “insulting” you by point out you are stating that the opposition parties are trying to abuse the democratic process by motioning a vote of no confidence that could lead to a general election, while you don’t believe it’s undemocratic or an abuse of power for an executive to ignore a lost vote of no confidence and refuse to hold an election

Since you evidently don't mean your apology, there can hardly be a point to accepting it, now, can there ?

As for your 'argument' ... this all has, as its basis, Boris's determination to get Brexit DONE AND DUSTED.

Boris wants a good deal from Brussels, as he's said time and again. Brussels is showing no interest at all (surprise, surprise) in moving towards one. Result ... unless the EU quits its intransigence, our default position is to leave minus a deal on 31st October. And ... Boris's default position is to see our Brexit become a reality ON THAT DATE.

Now ... WHY IS THAT ?

Answer: because Boris is doing the democratic thing of heeding a democratic vote, one mandating our exit ! Were he to choose, for whatever reason, to defer our leaving to a later date, he'd be defying that mandate. This has already happened once (thanks to all the shenanigans on Theresa May's watch). The mandate given is to LEAVE, not to DELAY LEAVING.

Enter, ahem, 'democratic' and 'un-hypocritical' Labour on to the scene. They're pushing for a 'no deal' Brexit to be an impossibility (even though an alternative one isn't even on the horizon, and they've defeated ratification of the current one, three times over !!) ... & they've now adopted a pro-Remain position, in complete defiance of the 2016 Referendum vote (and many of their own supporters !!). They're acting in contravention of their own 2017 election mandate by being pro-Remain now, meaning, they're providing a form of opposition they were never electorally sanctioned to perpetrate (!!). They're threatening a No Confidence motion in Boris and his Government, because Boris IS trying to respect the Referendum fully (!!) ... and they've even threatened to just TAKE OVER GOVERNMENT, WITHOUT BEING ELECTED TO DO SO BEFOREHAND, if Boris defies the 'No Confidence' vote !!

They even want to defy Parliamentary convention, which has it that major policy & / or legislative decisions cannot be submitted to Parliament during a General Election campaign .. one which could start the very day after Boris (IF he does !) loses a No Confidence motion. That election campaign could easily last until after the Brexit leaving date.

So, Noir. Your so-called 'point of democratic principle' ... and any criticism you may attempt against BORIS on those grounds ... looks decidedly shaky, not to even mention 'hypocritical', when you view all that LABOUR are getting up to ! Their very existence as a pro-Remain Party itself defies what many of their former supporters THOUGHT they were voting for, in 2017 !!

My suggestion, Noir, is that you acknowledge the clear hypocrisy being shown, today, by the Labour leadership, before sounding off on any suggestion of Boris Johnson's so-called hypocrisy.

Boris is respecting and following through on democratically-expressed wishes. Your side, that of the Left, is making a career of defying such wishes and mandates, as I've detailed above.

.. Seems to me that you don't have a leg to stand on, Noir ...