Vaccinations - back and forth

[jimnyc]

The main argument floating around of course is the vaccine and whether folks should be getting it or not.

Does it help? Does it not help? Is it worth taking? It's a personal choice, IMO, and the statistics seem to be 'missing' - just like when the government said the Vaers database was inaccurate at the moment, of which it was in fact. But I still haven't seen an appropriate update since.

The good news, somewhat, if you will about those taking the vaccination:

164 million folks vaccinated.

5,567 over 65
1,347 asymptomatic
7,101 hospitalizations
1,507 deaths

*1,816 (26%) of 7,101 hospitalizations reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.
†316 (21%) of 1,507 fatal cases reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.

How to interpret these data
The number of COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC likely are an undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons. National surveillance relies on passive and voluntary reporting, and data might not be complete or representative. These surveillance data are a snapshot and help identify patterns and look for signals among vaccine breakthrough cases.

Data on patients with vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died will be updated regularly. Studies are being conducted in multiple U.S. sites that will include information on all vaccine breakthrough infections regardless of clinical status to supplement the national surveillance.

COVID-19 vaccines are effective
Vaccine breakthrough cases occur in only a small percentage of vaccinated people. To date, no unexpected patterns have been identified in the case demographics or vaccine characteristics among people with reported vaccine breakthrough infections.
COVID-19 vaccines are effective. CDC recommends that everyone 12 years of age and older get a COVID-19 vaccine as soon as they can.
People who have been fully vaccinated can resume activities that they did prior to the pandemic.

Rest - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html


But I do not trust the CDC much anymore. I do not trust WHO anymore. I certainly don't trust Anthony Fauci. I definitely don't trust anything coming from this administration. I would never gather my information from any single one of those places.

That said - just as the numbers are really very very low to begin with. and the odds of croaking are also extremely low. The death rate is very low. Now if you're very old, and maybe also in a crappy nursing home, then worry a little maybe. 80 years old and above is still only in the 2% range and literally drops dramatically and then some when you hit 70 and lower and then even more so for 60-50. Myself in the 50 year old range equates to .007%.

You have a better chance of dying from suicide, overdose, falling down, gun crime, choking, sunstroke, radiation poisoning....

Seems like a low chance if vaccinated and a low chance if not vaccinated.

And don't kill me here @SassyLady - just copying some of the story over!

Similar with the Hydroxy - hide it from everyone and make a black market for it. Some stories make it sound as if this is solely for animals when it's not. Smaller doses are in fact used for humans. But black market it and make it so doctors can't prescribe, then of course folks will go elsewhere. I have read a few studies and reports showing it to be helpful.

Conclusions:
Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

Similar happened with Hydroxy and studies showing it to be effective.

Some people are taking an anti-parasitic to treat COVID. Here’s why that’s a bad idea

Some people itching to get their hands on a COVID-19 cure are putting themselves in danger for taking unprescribed doses of ivermectin, an anti-parasitic drug used to treat diseases such as river blindness or scabies in people and prevent heartworm disease and other infestations in animals.

The drug has been flying off the shelves of farm supply stores and veterinary offices as people, mostly those who refuse to get vaccinated, search for unconventional ways out of the pandemic.

Yet, several federal and international health agencies, including the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the National Institutes of Health and the World Health Organization, have advised against using ivermectin to treat or prevent COVID-19 outside of controlled clinical trials.

That’s because taking large unprescribed doses intended for animals can seriously harm your health.

“Let’s say it was manufactured for a large horse, but a human takes it, it can create low blood pressure, rapid heart rates, seizures; there are even episodes where you can see layers of your skin fall off. It can damage the liver, and there’s vision loss that can be associated,” Dr. Shane Speights, site dean at the New York Institute of Technology College of Osteopathic Medicine, told KAIT8.

“Data is just not good on ivermectin right now for the treatment of COVID. One of the drug manufacturers even said don’t use it,” Speights told the outlet. “Right now, the only answer to COVID is to be fully vaccinated.”

Rest - https://news.yahoo.com/people-taking...ycsrp_catchall

[fj1200]

I'm not sure how it can be argued that the vaccine is not effective. Mortality may be low but it's lower with vaccination. There's good people at the CDC; I know some, but it doesn't mean that the leadership can't be political and stupid at times or overstep their bounds with eviction moratoriums and the like. I think people should be able to make their choices.

But VAERS I don't think is ever "accurate." It does what it's designed to do and be a repository of data where connections can be made to try and figure out causation and not just correlation.

[Juicer66]

I'm not sure how it can be argued that the vaccine is not effective. Mortality may be low but it's lower with vaccination. There's good people at the CDC; I know some, but it doesn't mean that the leadership can't be political and stupid at times or overstep their bounds with eviction moratoriums and the like. I think people should be able to make their choices.

But VAERS I don't think is ever "accurate." It does what it's designed to do and be a repository of data where connections can be made to try and figure out causation and not just correlation.

I'm not sure how it can be argued that the vaccine is not effective. Mortality may be low but it's lower with vaccination.
It is no more effective than from NOT being inoculated.
If anything it is 'safer' not to be inoculated when under 70 and with no comorbidities
Absolutely nothing is known about long term safety and initial concerns are could turn into horror.
Spike Protein toxicity and spread plus the presence of the poison Graphene Oxide are very scary . To brush aside such concerns is irrational and potentially disastrous .

-----The leadership can't be political and stupid at times or overstep their bounds with eviction moratoriums and the like. I think people should be able to make their choices.
It is their current plus past actions that require assessing .
After assessing what they have done over the last 40 years , say , and the ways in which they have behaved , I suggest any fair minded person would not want to have anything to do with them and would regard them as a Family Crime Group .
Harsh but the evidence is damning but outside the scope of this Chat site . DYOR if it really interests .


VAERS I don't think is ever "accurate." It does what it's designed to do and be a repository of data where connections can be made to try and figure out
causation and not just correlation.

VAERS cannot be accurate by definition and intention . It is a reporting system and therefore only as good as the quantity and quality of responses it elicits.
What is important is knowing the likely level of under-reporting and that has been researched as being up to 90% .
Therefore, however you look at the figures they are very frightening -- the last thirty years of reported reactions for ALL vaccines is much less than the amount just against Covid . Astounding .
At what point do you admit that only calling deaths and injuries coincidences is stupid and criminal ? The pathetic Correlation versus Causation so called dilemma .
From memory the SARS 1 Hoax pandemic ( synthetic virus ) vaccine was halted after 5 deaths .


There is something very rotten and putrid in the state of Denmark , Horatio. imho .

[fj1200]

^None of your comments are worth much in this thread as they weren't much in the other threads you've brought them up.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm not sure how it can be argued that the vaccine is not effective. Mortality may be low but it's lower with vaccination.
It is no more effective than from NOT being inoculated.
If anything it is 'safer' not to be inoculated when under 70 and with no comorbidities
Absolutely nothing is known about long term safety and initial concerns are could turn into horror.
Spike Protein toxicity and spread plus the presence of the poison Graphene Oxide are very scary . To brush aside such concerns is irrational and potentially disastrous .

-----The leadership can't be political and stupid at times or overstep their bounds with eviction moratoriums and the like. I think people should be able to make their choices.
It is their current plus past actions that require assessing .
After assessing what they have done over the last 40 years , say , and the ways in which they have behaved , I suggest any fair minded person would not want to have anything to do with them and would regard them as a Family Crime Group .
Harsh but the evidence is damning but outside the scope of this Chat site . DYOR if it really interests .


VAERS I don't think is ever "accurate." It does what it's designed to do and be a repository of data where connections can be made to try and figure out
causation and not just correlation.

VAERS cannot be accurate by definition and intention . It is a reporting system and therefore only as good as the quantity and quality of responses it elicits.
What is important is knowing the likely level of under-reporting and that has been researched as being up to 90% .
Therefore, however you look at the figures they are very frightening -- the last thirty years of reported reactions for ALL vaccines is much less than the amount just against Covid . Astounding .
At what point do you admit that only calling deaths and injuries coincidences is stupid and criminal ? The pathetic Correlation versus Causation so called dilemma .
From memory the SARS 1 Hoax pandemic ( synthetic virus ) vaccine was halted after 5 deaths .


There is something very rotten and putrid in the state of Denmark , Horatio. imho .

Pay no heed to any naysayers that are cheerleading the vaccine as if they are getting paid to doso.. Because very likely many of the corrupted assholes are getting paid to do just that, imho... Very irritating to read how such idiots ignore or else downplay the many negatives, I know that deliberate blindness comes from an evil heart. Myself , I spit on such assholes. And dare any of those assholes to ever face me in person and then see how a real man, a truly decent person treats them when they are not hiding.., Tyr

[jimnyc]

Pay no heed to any naysayers that are cheerleading the vaccine as if they are getting paid to doso.. Because very likely many of the corrupted assholes are getting paid to do just that, imho... Very irritating to read how such idiots ignore or else downplay the many negatives, I know that deliberate blindness comes from an evil heart. Myself , I spit on such assholes. And dare any of those assholes to ever face me in person and then see how a real man, a truly decent person treats them when they are not hiding.., Tyr

I hope you didn't take my OP as cheerleading for the vaccine. Kinda just showing both sides. If I had to make my decision again today, not sure what I would do. And now that my traveling is over, I also found out I never even needed any proof of vaccination for my travels and everything was the same whether vaccinated or not. So I was even kind of duped there as well.

[Juicer66]

Pay no heed to any naysayers that are cheerleading the vaccine as if they are getting paid to doso.. Because very likely many of the corrupted assholes are getting paid to do just that, imho... Very irritating to read how such idiots ignore or else downplay the many negatives, I know that deliberate blindness comes from an evil heart. Myself , I spit on such assholes. And dare any of those assholes to ever face me in person and then see how a real man, a truly decent person treats them when they are not hiding.., Tyr

Thanks for that though I am never in the least put out when people react emotionally but leave their brains switched off .

I post on the basis that there may be one person occasionally who decides to think before just parroting a conditioned response .

At the worst I lose a little time but others will have kept me laughing albeit without their realising .

[Gunny]

It is my opinion that when or until people quit questioning the intelligence of thos who choose to or not to get vaccinated , this argument won't end. So who stands to gain most by finding something else to divide the people?

And why do I get the feeling those behind the divisiveness only care who lives or dies as it suits their narrative to keep it going?

Just a thought.

[fj1200]

Pay no heed to any naysayers that are cheerleading the vaccine as if they are getting paid to doso.. Because very likely many of the corrupted assholes are getting paid to do just that, imho... Very irritating to read how such idiots ignore or else downplay the many negatives, I know that deliberate blindness comes from an evil heart. Myself , I spit on such assholes. And dare any of those assholes to ever face me in person and then see how a real man, a truly decent person treats them when they are not hiding.., Tyr

Passive-aggressive bravery behind a keyboard. Pathetic.

[fj1200]

Thanks for that though I am never in the least put out when people react emotionally but leave their brains switched off .

I post on the basis that there may be one person occasionally who decides to think before just parroting a conditioned response .

At the worst I lose a little time but others will have kept me laughing albeit without their realising .

This one person did a little "DYOR" and decided you were full of it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I hope you didn't take my OP as cheerleading for the vaccine. Kinda just showing both sides. If I had to make my decision again today, not sure what I would do. And now that my traveling is over, I also found out I never even needed any proof of vaccination for my travels and everything was the same whether vaccinated or not. So I was even kind of duped there as well.

I had not a single problem with your thread comment Jim.
You and I are both in agreement about how it is the person's right to decide to take or not take the shot.
And you - DO NOT- ignore the many negatives as do some of these cheerleading, ffing idiots, liars , pieces of shittttttt that try to vilify those that declined to take part in this unsafe, experimental trial they are now running...
My statement stands to and about ---any member-- of that cowardly, corrupt , lying group.--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
Pay no heed to any naysayers that are cheerleading the vaccine as if they are getting paid to doso.. Because very likely many of the corrupted assholes are getting paid to do just that, imho... Very irritating to read how such idiots ignore or else downplay the many negatives, I know that deliberate blindness comes from an evil heart. Myself , I spit on such assholes. And dare any of those assholes to ever face me in person and then see how a real man, a truly decent person treats them when they are not hiding.., Tyr

Passive-aggressive bravery behind a keyboard. Pathetic.

hmmmm. lets see...

This part of my post points to my speaking about a group- not an individual-- I made that clear using this word-- "assholes"--now did that lead you to think of yourself???

I know that deliberate blindness comes from an evil heart. Myself , I spit on such assholes.

What is truly pathetic in your case , is when a guilty dog barks because it is so arrogant as to think --everything-- is about its own godly, and self-aggrandized character and actions. You were not the target -that huge group that I mentioned was, but if you felt slighted(because of your amazing ability to see into other people's minds)- well then, hell--good! By the way, when I choose to be aggressive and take action-- there is not ever a damn thing passive about it, idiot....
Now go piss on some fire-hydrants and guard your dem/leftist masters' yard..--Tyr

[fj1200]

hmmmm. lets see...

This part of my post points to my speaking about a group- not an individual-- I made that clear using this word-- "assholes"--now did that lead you to think of yourself???


What is truly pathetic in your case , is when a guilty dog barks because it is so arrogant as to think --everything-- is about its own godly, and self-aggrandized character and actions. You were not the target -that huge group that I mentioned was, but if you felt slighted(because of your amazing ability to see into other people's minds)- well then, hell--good! By the way, when I choose to be aggressive and take action-- there is not ever a damn thing passive about it, idiot....
Now go piss on some fire-hydrants and guard your dem/leftist masters' yard..--Tyr

Toward me? No. You're a passive aggressive coward against naysayers and anyone you can't shout down. You don't want the vaccine then don't get the vaccine. You're very free to ignore all the evidence that you want, good, bad, or otherwise, and inject another mindless rant into the 50th* thread where you can talk as tough as you want. Each time I see it though I chalk it up to another level of ignorant ravings.



*Taking a wild guess.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

[SassyLady]

The main argument floating around of course is the vaccine and whether folks should be getting it or not.

Does it help? Does it not help? Is it worth taking? It's a personal choice, IMO, and the statistics seem to be 'missing' - just like when the government said the Vaers database was inaccurate at the moment, of which it was in fact. But I still haven't seen an appropriate update since.

The good news, somewhat, if you will about those taking the vaccination:

164 million folks vaccinated.





Rest - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html


But I do not trust the CDC much anymore. I do not trust WHO anymore. I certainly don't trust Anthony Fauci. I definitely don't trust anything coming from this administration. I would never gather my information from any single one of those places.

That said - just as the numbers are really very very low to begin with. and the odds of croaking are also extremely low. The death rate is very low. Now if you're very old, and maybe also in a crappy nursing home, then worry a little maybe. 80 years old and above is still only in the 2% range and literally drops dramatically and then some when you hit 70 and lower and then even more so for 60-50. Myself in the 50 year old range equates to .007%.

You have a better chance of dying from suicide, overdose, falling down, gun crime, choking, sunstroke, radiation poisoning....

Seems like a low chance if vaccinated and a low chance if not vaccinated.

And don't kill me here @SassyLady - just copying some of the story over!

Similar with the Hydroxy - hide it from everyone and make a black market for it. Some stories make it sound as if this is solely for animals when it's not. Smaller doses are in fact used for humans. But black market it and make it so doctors can't prescribe, then of course folks will go elsewhere. I have read a few studies and reports showing it to be helpful.



Similar happened with Hydroxy and studies showing it to be effective.

Some people are taking an anti-parasitic to treat COVID. Here’s why that’s a bad idea

Some people itching to get their hands on a COVID-19 cure are putting themselves in danger for taking unprescribed doses of ivermectin, an anti-parasitic drug used to treat diseases such as river blindness or scabies in people and prevent heartworm disease and other infestations in animals.

The drug has been flying off the shelves of farm supply stores and veterinary offices as people, mostly those who refuse to get vaccinated, search for unconventional ways out of the pandemic.

Yet, several federal and international health agencies, including the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the National Institutes of Health and the World Health Organization, have advised against using ivermectin to treat or prevent COVID-19 outside of controlled clinical trials.

That’s because taking large unprescribed doses intended for animals can seriously harm your health.

“Let’s say it was manufactured for a large horse, but a human takes it, it can create low blood pressure, rapid heart rates, seizures; there are even episodes where you can see layers of your skin fall off. It can damage the liver, and there’s vision loss that can be associated,” Dr. Shane Speights, site dean at the New York Institute of Technology College of Osteopathic Medicine, told KAIT8.

“Data is just not good on ivermectin right now for the treatment of COVID. One of the drug manufacturers even said don’t use it,” Speights told the outlet. “Right now, the only answer to COVID is to be fully vaccinated.”

Rest - https://news.yahoo.com/people-taking...ycsrp_catchall

Because you mentioned me ..

I have a prescription for Ivermectin so I know my dosage is for humans. Got it from a pharmacy not a feed or pet store. My medical professional belongs to a group of doctors on Facebook and the group was banned when they started talking about Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. That in itself bothers me. People should be able to get both sides of info so they can make informed decisions. It used to be that way. But when the government is working with social media to shut down one side of the debate it is bothersome to me.

And, I don't agree with this statement .. "Right now, the only answer to COVID is to be fully vaccinated.”

Having a healthy immune system is the best way to go.