Well, I Went And Done It, Gunny...

[Gunny]

Yeah that's it, ROWS, I start with 80, then second set 90, then finish with 100 pounds. I use the bench press bar because it has an adjustment where I can move it way forward or backwards, so I sit on the seat facing backwards and do rows with the bench press bar. I started out with 50 pounds 3 three months ago. I actually could sit and use the curl cable on the front to do rows too. I bought a new curl bar on Amazon, works great, must weigh 10 pounds by itself...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I wonder if the weight is the same on cables as it is with free weights... IDK. But I don't try and kill myself. I do push it but haven't been trying to SEE HOW MUCH I CAN LIFT. I do what feels good and do increase the resistance, but I get a good burn. I know "form" has a lot to do with what good you're getting out of your exercises. If I don't break a sweat, then I'm not working hard enough. I have started wearing my sweats when I work out now.

I should try a pull up. I haven't been able to do even ONE for a long time. Got too damn fat, but, I'm losing weight. Down to 207 from 221. About half way to my target. About the only way to keep losing is to fast... A LOT. Been drinking protein drinks and taking my vitamins. I'll get there. I'm actually wearing a pair of my 36" waist jeans. Haven't been able to even PULL A PAIR OF THOSE ON for ages. Gets me real motivated to see those changes. I had given up.

The "free weights vs machines" argument is as old as the first machine. It's also like the proverbial asshole -- everybody's got one.

A few things I know. One it depends 100% on what you want. Lifting is you vs the weight, not you vs anyone else's opinion and/or capability. Chasing someone else's capability unless you are a professional competitor is dumb and usually non-or-counter-productive.

I get caught up in the mentality of comparing what I used to lift to what I am lifting and calling it "baby weight". In context, I am stronger than the average man. I never remember that part when I'm looking to 1 rep max with a weight I used to use for a warm up

What I know about the argument is this: There has been one, professional weightlifter/bodybuilder/power lifter that I know of that claimed to build his body with machines. That was Casey Viator back in the 80s, a competitive bodybuilder and Top 10 in pro events for a few years. The claim was he built his body using nothing but the Nautilus weight machines. A LOT of people were skeptical. For one, Arthur Jones who invented both the Universal and Nautilus machines was footing his bill to pimp his stuff

From personal experience, I was a regular at pushing over 300 on the bench on the Universal. First time I tried free weights (heavy ones), I got 185. Serious ego crush

The science behind it is free weights require a lot of auxiliary muscles machines do not. You have to balance the weight in free weights. On machines, you have only to move the weight along the predetermined track. If you drop it, it makes a lot of noise but you can jump away from it and no harm no foul. The free weights you have to be in control of from start to finish. You can seriously injure yourself or someone else if you drop a weight/miss a lift with free weights. So you have to also add in the mental stress of knowing that. And stress DOES matter when lifting.

As far as who decides what equates to what, who knows?

[Gunny]

Here's another one. Try doing your entire routine with dumbbells instead of barbells. You got weights going everywhere, one in each hand in different directions and if you have a flaw/one side compensates for the other with the bar, the dumbbells will tell you REAL quick. It's an excellent way to try and "even" your body but it too is an ego killer. Especially in heavy pressing movements.

Then you have kettlebells. They're even wilder because the weight swivels in your grip.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Here's another one. Try doing your entire routine with dumbbells instead of barbells. You got weights going everywhere, one in each hand in different directions and if you have a flaw/one side compensates for the other with the bar, the dumbbells will tell you REAL quick. It's an excellent way to try and "even" your body but it too is an ego killer. Especially in heavy pressing movements.

Then you have kettlebells. They're even wilder because the weight swivels in your grip.

Been looking at barbells. I used to have a nice set, lost it somewhere after moving a dozen times. I might pick up another set. I know there's a lot of exercises you do with them, and them being free weights would be good.

[Gunny]

Yeah there's no way I'm going to be able to get as much good out of free weights as a universal gym, for one, because of the near total atrophy in my right triceps, and two, even when I use the front, bottom cable on the gym and do curls, I can feel a little catch in my back sometimes if I'm not consciously flexing my core to stand straight. The other thing about a gym for me was the ability to virtually get a total body workout on one machine.

And it's pretty obvious at this point that I'm not going to pack on a lot of bulk, although I will put some on, I just enjoy the workouts, it feels great and it's healthy.

Going to get a workout today shoveling SNOW... holy cow we got it good yesterday, and it's COLD.

Been looking at barbells. I used to have a nice set, lost it somewhere after moving a dozen times. I might pick up another set. I know there's a lot of exercises you do with them, and them being free weights would be good.

I went with the barbells to force my injured shoulder to keep up. I use dumbbells to isolate it and work it alone to build its strength up. Doubt it'll ever catch up, but if I focus on just rehabbing the injury I see a LOT of spinning my wheels. I literally started with 5 lbs and have worked my way up. The overload from the barbell weight has forced it to come along.

Gives me something to bitch about and blame

I lift how I always have. At least since about 81. I used machines before that because that's mostly what was available to me. I don't knock them. And on a day like you described today being, I'd be sitting INSIDE at my weights watching it snow OUTSIDE . Regardless the weather, I'm in the garage. It was bad when I lived in IL. I would have on long johns, sweats, clothes, heavy ass gloves, hat, snow boots and STILL have to run inside about every 20 minutes and thaw my hands. I was so bulked up it's a wonder I could move to lift

It's still cold here insofar as that steel bar goes. I wear gloves between sets. But generally get away with just sweats and a hoodie.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I went with the barbells to force my injured shoulder to keep up. I use dumbbells to isolate it and work it alone to build its strength up. Doubt it'll ever catch up, but if I focus on just rehabbing the injury I see a LOT of spinning my wheels. I literally started with 5 lbs and have worked my way up. The overload from the barbell weight has forced it to come along.

Gives me something to bitch about and blame

I lift how I always have. At least since about 81. I used machines before that because that's mostly what was available to me. I don't knock them. And on a day like you described today being, I'd be sitting INSIDE at my weights watching it snow OUTSIDE . Regardless the weather, I'm in the garage. It was bad when I lived in IL. I would have on long johns, sweats, clothes, heavy ass gloves, hat, snow boots and STILL have to run inside about every 20 minutes and thaw my hands. I was so bulked up it's a wonder I could move to lift

It's still cold here insofar as that steel bar goes. I wear gloves between sets. But generally get away with just sweats and a hoodie.

That's why I put the gym in the house. There's some days I don't come out to the shop, and if it was out here and if I had to shovel snow, turn up the heat and all that just to work out, if I'm feeling lazy I won't, but when it's right in the house just a couple feet from me, I don't have an excuse not to workout. I still have to make myself START sometimes, but once I'm into it I'm gung-ho. Other days I can't wait to get to it.

Stepped on the scale this morning and I was 206 even, so I've officially lost 15 pounds. Slow but sure. Was wearing 38's," but I have on my 36" waist jeans and they're not even tight. Maybe I'll even have to go buy some 34" because I plan on losing another 15 at least. Six pounds to go to 200, and I haven't weighed under that for a good 10 years. I'll be makin' history...

[High_Plains_Drifter]

@Gunny... I remember somewhere in this thread you said that you'd even lift sometimes after downing a bottle of Jack, that you "had issues,"...

I'll tell ya brother, as much as I've been hitting it, I HAVE even came in from the shop a time of two after having a couple, and I'll have to tell ya, it just doesn't work for me. You gotta be an animal...

IDK... the strength ain't there, the energy ain't there, seems like I'll hurt my damn self if I pushed it.

I will tell you this though, bro, I'm on my second bottle of Prime Labs testosterone boosters, and I swear they are helping. I was ripping some curls the other day and FINALLY the next day my biceps were a little sore, whereas before it never seemed like how hard I pushed the bis, they never got sore. Same with the lats, but they were a little sore too. So the pills might be helping build bulk, and that is the idea.

[Gunny]

@Gunny... I remember somewhere in this thread you said that you'd even lift sometimes after downing a bottle of Jack, that you "had issues,"...

I'll tell ya brother, as much as I've been hitting it, I HAVE even came in from the shop a time of two after having a couple, and I'll have to tell ya, it just doesn't work for me. You gotta be an animal...

IDK... the strength ain't there, the energy ain't there, seems like I'll hurt my damn self if I pushed it.

I will tell you this though, bro, I'm on my second bottle of Prime Labs testosterone boosters, and I swear they are helping. I was ripping some curls the other day and FINALLY the next day my biceps were a little sore, whereas before it never seemed like how hard I pushed the bis, they never got sore. Same with the lats, but they were a little sore too. So the pills might be helping build bulk, and that is the idea.

@High_Plains_Drifter I've been looking for this thread because I remember you responded in it. Leave it to you to put it in Science and Health

I wouldn't recommend drinking and lifting to anyone. I was certainly setting no personal records at the time. I definitely wasn't lifting near my max. Thing is, I had to limit my lifting so I had "A workout". It was a Jack of All Trades, Master of none workout. In the early 80s I got too big for my uniforms. Twice. Expensive. Then I went on independent duty where I had to where charlies every day so my uniform had to fit every day. Plus, I had to be able to run 3 miles in 28 or less (28 is minimum to graze in with a pass). Then there's the time itself to work out.

My workout for years was tailored to fit me in my uniforms. When I retired, it was more about the time because suddenly I wasn't working out on the Corps' dime, and I was getting a Hell of a workout just being an electrician.

SO ... I could go through the motions, drinking or not. The difference between then and now is I have to actually concentrate and apply effort now.

Something else you've mentioned a couple of times I've really not commented on. I don't have an ab workout. I do different crap whenever the mood strikes for my abs. The abdominal wall is a muscle. It grows just like an other muscle with exercise. I used to do 400 situps every day before work (way back when) and wonder why I wasn't getting abs like Rambo (First Blood was new back then and suddenly put the demand on all of us to sport six packs).

Mostly, I'll do hanging leg raises from my pullup bar and it keeps my abs strong, which is my primary goal in working them.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

The "free weights vs machines" argument is as old as the first machine. It's also like the proverbial asshole -- everybody's got one.

A few things I know. One it depends 100% on what you want. Lifting is you vs the weight, not you vs anyone else's opinion and/or capability. Chasing someone else's capability unless you are a professional competitor is dumb and usually non-or-counter-productive.

I get caught up in the mentality of comparing what I used to lift to what I am lifting and calling it "baby weight". In context, I am stronger than the average man. I never remember that part when I'm looking to 1 rep max with a weight I used to use for a warm up

What I know about the argument is this: There has been one, professional weightlifter/bodybuilder/power lifter that I know of that claimed to build his body with machines. That was Casey Viator back in the 80s, a competitive bodybuilder and Top 10 in pro events for a few years. The claim was he built his body using nothing but the Nautilus weight machines. A LOT of people were skeptical. For one, Arthur Jones who invented both the Universal and Nautilus machines was footing his bill to pimp his stuff

From personal experience, I was a regular at pushing over 300 on the bench on the Universal. First time I tried free weights (heavy ones), I got 185. Serious ego crush

The science behind it is free weights require a lot of auxiliary muscles machines do not. You have to balance the weight in free weights. On machines, you have only to move the weight along the predetermined track. If you drop it, it makes a lot of noise but you can jump away from it and no harm no foul. The free weights you have to be in control of from start to finish. You can seriously injure yourself or someone else if you drop a weight/miss a lift with free weights. So you have to also add in the mental stress of knowing that. And stress DOES matter when lifting.

As far as who decides what equates to what, who knows?

Yeah there's no way I'm going to be able to get as much good out of free weights as a universal gym, for one, because of the near total atrophy in my right triceps, and two, even when I use the front, bottom cable on the gym and do curls, I can feel a little catch in my back sometimes if I'm not consciously flexing my core to stand straight. The other thing about a gym for me was the ability to virtually get a total body workout on one machine.

And it's pretty obvious at this point that I'm not going to pack on a lot of bulk, although I will put some on, I just enjoy the workouts, it feels great and it's healthy.

Going to get a workout today shoveling SNOW... holy cow we got it good yesterday, and it's COLD.