Dissenting Darwin

[pete311]

Tangential topic:
Why do you think NASA's stated number one goal in space research is to find indicia that "life" was once supported on other planets? It is the endless pursuit to try to back up theories on the origins of life for which there is and never will be proof.
I love documentaries about space, but I think the goal is flawed and unnecessary. Let's explore for other habitable planets, or useful materials, or even just for the sheer joy of it.
Stop spending millions on an agenda like this.

Can you find a source supporting your number one goal claim? There is a ton of space research that has nothing to do with finding life.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Nope

...

[Abbey Marie]

The part about volunteering with the youth group is nice to hear, and I'm sorry to hear about the pastor - he could not be more wrong and is/was in the wrong profession.

What would your opinion of this debate have been back then? Did this pastor change your mind about this?

I'd like to hear Pete's reply to this question.

[pete311]

I'd like to hear Pete's reply to this question.

Faith and science don’t have to be incompatible

[Abbey Marie]

Can you find a source supporting your number one goal claim? There is a ton of space research that has nothing to do with finding life.

Watch any science channel documentary on space research. It's quite clear. What do you think the Mars rovers were looking primarily for, btw? What did they report on more than anything, and with great glee?

Just super-quickly, from NASA's own web site:

To support NASA’s growing emphasis on detecting life beyond Earth, NASA’s Ames Research Center in California’s Silicon Valley has established the Center for Life Detection Science. CLDS brings together a diverse group of researchers at Ames and NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland to tackle the next set of challenges science must overcome to be able to one day detect life beyond Earth.

The center’s formation comes at a critical moment in the field of astrobiology, the study of the origin of life and its potential in the universe. A recent report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine found that NASA should ramp up efforts to develop technologies capable of detecting life beyond Earth to use on future missions. The report, intended to help NASA develop its science strategy and research goals for the next 20 years, also urged the agency to seek collaboration with a diverse expertise outside of traditional space sciences to get more out of space mission opportunities.In this spirit, the center is playing a foundational role in establishing a new consortium of researchers from within and outside of NASA with expertise in the physical sciences, biology, astrophysics and more. The Network for Life Detection, or NfoLD, will drive research in ways that inform where NASA should best invest its resources and the design of future missions with the capabilities of detecting life.

The Laboratory for Agnostic Biosignatures asks how we can recognize life “as we don’t know it.” Led by principal investigator Sarah Stewart Johnson of Georgetown University, this team of international researchers will lay the groundwork for detecting biosignatures of lifeforms that could be very different than those found on Earth, allowing for yet-to-be-conceived biochemistries that could produce exotic biomolecules.The Oceans Across Space and Time team will investigate the possibilities of past or present life in the oceans of the icy, outer moons of our solar system, or on ancient Mars. By studying the conditions of aquatic systems that control their habitability, the team, led by principal investigator Britney Schmidt of Georgia Tech, will determine possible means of detecting biological activity in those systems.
Meanwhile, the center is connecting this new community of NfoLD researchers by building an interactive repository of information where researchers can explore and debate approaches in life detection that may one day be used to search for evidence of life on other worlds.
“The search for life beyond Earth cannot be a one-size-fits-all approach,” said Hoehler. “To give ourselves the best shot at success, we need to develop tools and strategies that are tailored to detecting life in the unique conditions of other worlds, which are very different not only from Earth but also from each other.”
NfoLD’s three founding teams are expected to be joined in the coming year by dozens of new teams that are pursuing life detection-themed science or technology development. It represents a relatively new organizing model supported by NASA, called a research coordination network. NASA’s Astrobiology Program organized its first successful one in 2015 — the Nexus for Exoplanet System Science, which was formed to study the habitability of planets beyond our solar system. NfoLD is the second one to come online with at least three more expected to form in future years in areas of astrobiology.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ne...e-beyond-earth

Also, even just the titles of these should help you understand:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/na...earch-for-life

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...for-alien-life

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/is...o-sustain-life

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/su...-in-deep-space

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/will-we...of-the-science

Many, many more, if I look...

[Gunny]

Nope

As I said. You could be shot out of the sky flying an airplane, slam into the ground and burst into flames, and you'd STILL swear you are still flying.

You're about gullible as Hell too. Geez what a sheep

[pete311]

NASA is a scientific agency and wants to find scientific explanations to some big questions. I don’t know more what to say. I am certainly excited to hear of any developments. What would be your reaction to evidence of life or past life on somewhere other than earth or do you consider it impossible? It’s been estimated there are trillions of galaxies in our universes. Probability says we aren’t the only life. What’s the point of so much wasted space to a god? I would never let him run a business

[Abbey Marie]

NASA is a scientific agency and wants to find scientific explanations to some big questions. I don’t know more what to say. I am certainly excited to hear of any developments. What would be your reaction to evidence of life or past life on somewhere other than earth or do you consider it impossible? It’s been estimated there are trillions of galaxies in our universes. Probability says we aren’t the only life. What’s the point of so much wasted space to a god? I would never let him run a business

You know, He can hear you...


To answer your question, no one can know the mind or intent of God.
Perhaps, like my earlier in this thread quotation from Psalms, He just wants us to see His glory in the Universe.
Or maybe He did create life elsewhere. And what hubris would it take for me to state "It's impossible"!
The same incredible hubris it takes to say God is a fiction. And to try to convince others that He is.

I really have no problem with the concept of looking for life in space per se. What I don't care for is the emhasis on it and the agenda behind it- to try to debunk an Intelligent Designer. (There is a reason that so many Atheists love the search). Not that I think they ever can, but the time and money and attempts to destroy faith irk me. I would hate to be responsible for turning someone else away from God- like your youth camp minister.

Btw, what do you think we gain if we do find signs of former life, say on Mars?
Perhaps some non-relevant-to-Earth microbiological tidbits, but what of import besides trying to destroy Creationism?
And if we find fully developed beings, shouldn't we be worried for our planet? What if they want to land here and take our resources? I don't think a wall will help.


Just one more, to emphasize the point:

NASA - Science Goals
May 25, 2006






Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter's science investigations and engineering instruments directly support the Mars Exploration Program's overall science strategy of "Following the Water." The four science goals that support this strategy for discovery are:

Goal 1: Determine Whether Life Ever Arose on Mars

The presence of liquid water on Mars, past or present, is a key clue in revealing whether Mars ever harbored life. From the tiniest microbe to more complex organisms, life as we know it could not exist without liquid water. The Reconnaissance Orbiter's scientific payload includes instruments to zero in on water-related surface features such as outflow channels from ancient floods, and to study water-related mineral deposits in Mars' rocks and soil. Cameras and spectrometers will carry out these searches, and a sounder will use radar to search for liquid water beneath the martian surface.








Image right: This artist's concept shows the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter using its Shallow Radar to "look" under the surface of Mars.

[Abbey Marie]

@darin

I'm sorry if I've derailed your thread. Feel free to split off the posts about NASA/life

[pete311]

I really have no problem with the concept of looking for life in space per se. What I don't care for is the emhasis on it and the agenda behind it- to try to debunk an Intelligent Designer. (There is a reason that so many Atheists love the search). Not that I think they ever can, but the time and money and attempts to destroy faith irk me. I would hate to be responsible for turning someone else away from God- like your youth camp minister.

Btw, what do you think we gain if we do find signs of former life, say on Mars?
Perhaps some non-relevant-to-Earth microbiological tidbits, but what of import besides trying to destroy Creationism?
And if we find fully developed beings, shouldn't we be worried for our planet? What if they want to land here and take our resources? I don't think a wall will help.

I think it's erroneous to think thousands of career scientists are working day and night JUST to debunk intelligent design. I don't really think you think that. One possible reason for looking for life or past life is that Earth can't be our only home. We are wrecking it and it will be over populated some day. Maybe not for hundreds of years, but I'd like to think we're going to survive past hundreds of years. For that to happen we need to find places where life can exist. What better place to consider home if it already shows it can support life.

Thank you Abbey for discussing this topic in a worthwhile and enjoyable manner!

[Gunny]

NASA is a scientific agency and wants to find scientific explanations to some big questions. I don’t know more what to say. I am certainly excited to hear of any developments. What would be your reaction to evidence of life or past life on somewhere other than earth or do you consider it impossible? It’s been estimated there are trillions of galaxies in our universes. Probability says we aren’t the only life. What’s the point of so much wasted space to a god? I would never let him run a business

Again, you're flip-flopping from science to scientific theory, groping for a response. Science is MAN's explanation for what MAN can comprehend. Simple enough.

Scientific theory is just taking half the puzzle and filling in the blank spaces with someone's "educated (or not) GUESS as to what goes there with no REAL knowledge, evidence or fact. If you apply scientific law to scientific theory, the latter falls apart every time.

God is ALWAYS there. He is allowing you to use your free will and make a choice.

[pete311]

Again, you're flip-flopping from science to scientific theory, groping for a response. Science is MAN's explanation for what MAN can comprehend. Simple enough.

Scientific theory is just taking half the puzzle and filling in the blank spaces with someone's "educated (or not) GUESS as to what goes there with no REAL knowledge, evidence or fact. If you apply scientific law to scientific theory, the latter falls apart every time.

God is ALWAYS there. He is allowing you to use your free will and make a choice.

Please learn what science theory and science law are. Read below and consider yourself educated in them and then apply what you've learned to how to respond to me.

SCIENTIFIC THEORY
A scientific theory is a specific type of theory used in the scientific method. The term "theory" can mean something different, depending on whom you ask.
"The way that scientists use the word 'theory' is a little different than how it is commonly used in the lay public," said Jaime Tanner, a professor of biology at Marlboro College. "Most people use the word 'theory' to mean an idea or hunch that someone has, but in science the word 'theory' refers to the way that we interpret facts."
https://www.livescience.com/21491-wh...of-theory.html

SCIENTIFIC LAW
In general, a scientific law is the description of an observed phenomenon. It doesn't explain why the phenomenon exists or what causes it. The explanation of a phenomenon is called a scientific theory. It is a misconception that theories turn into laws with enough research. "In science, laws are a starting place," said Peter Coppinger, an associate professor of biology and biomedical engineering at the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. "From there, scientists can then ask the questions, 'Why and how?'"
https://www.livescience.com/21457-wh...tific-law.html

[Abbey Marie]

I think it's erroneous to think thousands of career scientists are working day and night JUST to debunk intelligent design. I don't really think you think that. One possible reason for looking for life or past life is that Earth can't be our only home. We are wrecking it and it will be over populated some day. Maybe not for hundreds of years, but I'd like to think we're going to survive past hundreds of years. For that to happen we need to find places where life can exist. What better place to consider home if it already shows it can support life.

Thank you Abbey for discussing this topic in a worthwhile and enjoyable manner!

Thank you, too, Pete. I was just saying this to Russ. I love a respectful, intelligent discussion.

And, yes, I don’t think that is all they research for. But I do think it is by far the favorite goal.

[Gunny]

Please learn what science theory and science law are. Read below and consider yourself educated in them and then apply what you've learned to how to respond to me.

SCIENTIFIC THEORY
A scientific theory is a specific type of theory used in the scientific method. The term "theory" can mean something different, depending on whom you ask.
"The way that scientists use the word 'theory' is a little different than how it is commonly used in the lay public," said Jaime Tanner, a professor of biology at Marlboro College. "Most people use the word 'theory' to mean an idea or hunch that someone has, but in science the word 'theory' refers to the way that we interpret facts."
https://www.livescience.com/21491-wh...of-theory.html

SCIENTIFIC LAW
In general, a scientific law is the description of an observed phenomenon. It doesn't explain why the phenomenon exists or what causes it. The explanation of a phenomenon is called a scientific theory. It is a misconception that theories turn into laws with enough research. "In science, laws are a starting place," said Peter Coppinger, an associate professor of biology and biomedical engineering at the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. "From there, scientists can then ask the questions, 'Why and how?'"
https://www.livescience.com/21457-wh...tific-law.html

I know what they both are, shit for brains. They're quite obvious. You, on the other hand apparently can only regurgitate someone else's words, fact and opinion.

But don't worry about it, Pete. I used to think it was me until I realized there are people like you that are just that damned dumb, and willing to prove it.

[pete311]

I know what they both are, shit for brains. They're quite obvious. You, on the other hand apparently can only regurgitate someone else's words, fact and opinion.

But don't worry about it, Pete. I used to think it was me until I realized there are people like you that are just that damned dumb, and willing to prove it.

Obvious and yet all your comments to me show the exact opposite. Put down your pride for once.