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  1. #91
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    A better solution would be to eliminate the Department of Education. States can educate without the federal government involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtnBiker View Post
    A better solution would be to eliminate the Department of Education. States can educate without the federal government involved.
    They COULD but then you have states like Mississipppi even more blatantly declaring that football is more important than learning. Federal oversight is a good thing.

  3. #93
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    Last word! I has it!
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by logroller View Post
    I could say the same thing for mandating a minimum number of instructional minutes. The old adage, you can lead to a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink, applies well here. Schools, govt et al, are bound by certain constitutional limitations, esp. due process/equal protection. The amount of paperwork and subsequent time required to do anything on a case-by-case basis leaves all but the most extreme cases unattended-- so you get sweeping legislation instead. Not because its functionally more effective, but because its more efficiently created. Again, this is a critique of institutionalization, and another reason why the Feds shouldn't fund educational institutions. But that's not to say feeding kids is without merit; it just needs to be addressed at the state level, with independent monitoring by the feds. I thought that's how a republic was supposed to operate.
    So you're against the governmentally imposed monopoly on education as well?
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  5. #95
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    My granddaughter is in the 7th grade and my grandson is in the 4th. Neither of them have ever attended a public school (in charter schools) and their schools have no cafeteria. All parents have to provide lunch; no ifs, ands or buts. If they forget to bring it/make it, there are no backup lunches...they do without. One of the first lessons these schools teach is personal responsibility and that they are not there to coddle anyone. I propose that all cafeterias be closed.

    PS...my grandson won first place last night at his science fair, so missing a lunch here or there has not affected his ability to learn and excel.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
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    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    So you're against the governmentally imposed monopoly on education as well?

    There is of course no such monopoly. You're free to send your child to public/private school OR home school them. I guess it's true that the government mandates that you can't simply not educate your children, but that's probably a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    My granddaughter is in the 7th grade and my grandson is in the 4th. Neither of them have ever attended a public school (in charter schools) and their schools have no cafeteria. All parents have to provide lunch; no ifs, ands or buts. If they forget to bring it/make it, there are no backup lunches...they do without. One of the first lessons these schools teach is personal responsibility and that they are not there to coddle anyone. I propose that all cafeterias be closed.

    PS...my grandson won first place last night at his science fair, so missing a lunch here or there has not affected his ability to learn and excel.
    First of all congrats to your grandson.

    Second of all, I think we all know there is a difference between missing an occasional lunch and not having lunch on a regular basis. So your anecdote, while cute, doesn't apply.

  7. #97
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    Nobody's mind knows they didn't eat lunch. "LUNCH" is not the key to anything people. Think about this; stop the logical fallacies.

    Some of you are prophesying over kids; proclaiming their 'distractions from a hungry belly' and somehow converting that into guesses on their academic performance. Balderdash!

    Our bodies are not regulated by the labels we apply to the meals we eat. You folk are basing your arguments, in large part, attempting to tug at heart strings with no evidence your claims/fears are rational.

    As I've shown - and nobody not in agreement has been able to argue-down - school lunch programs are not proven helpful. They are a waste of tax dollars. Further, the practice re-enforces bad parenting.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmp View Post
    Nobody's mind knows they didn't eat lunch. "LUNCH" is not the key to anything people. Think about this; stop the logical fallacies.

    Some of you are prophesying over kids; proclaiming their 'distractions from a hungry belly' and somehow converting that into guesses on their academic performance. Balderdash!

    Our bodies are not regulated by the labels we apply to the meals we eat. You folk are basing your arguments, in large part, attempting to tug at heart strings with no evidence your claims/fears are rational.

    As I've shown - and nobody not in agreement has been able to argue-down - school lunch programs are not proven helpful. They are a waste of tax dollars. Further, the practice re-enforces bad parenting.
    Since this has been a hot topic, I looked at the cafeteria as I was walking the minions to assembly. The cafeteria was pretty much packed. But a majority of the kids seem to be well-clothed, put-together ... definitely not what one would describe as needy or underfed.

    It occurs to me that perhaps as I think has been pointed out, the fact of the program being there encourages parents to be lazy. They may pay for the breakfasts and pay full price, as opposed to those who get a discount or free breakfast/lunch but is it necessary? My kids would definitely qualify for discounted/free breakfast and/or lunch but I find it a point of responsibility that I/we provide for them. Our breakfasts and lunches may not be the fanciest but they are basically healthy (they even take a veggie in their lunch ) and I know what they are eating. Our boys make their own lunches under supervision, of course, so they eat it better and they take on some responsibility for themselves.

    Why have kids if you're gonna have somebody else take care of them? Never understood that.
    Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.

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    I'm mixed. I've seen from the housing projects around NYC, kids that are not fed at home, if not for School Programs, they would be in trouble, something that would force the hand of Child Services, for better or worse. The Breakfast?Lunch programs are a crutch, that does lead to dependency, true. There is a real problem and it is compound. Another factor to consider in wasted money, is an inventory in how much gets thrown out by the kid's uneaten, untouched. There is allot of waste. One thing is for sure, One size fit's all, centralized planning does not work.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    Why have kids if you're gonna have somebody else take care of them? Never understood that.
    I am blessed to the point of sending my kids with as much or as little food as they want. I'm sure food banks would love more support to provide for the families of those who aren't as blessed/hard-working as me and my wife. Let private charity do their job; remove charity operations from the public sector - in doing so, you'll reduce my tax burden - allowing me to give MORE to charities - both local and across the nation.

    Therein lies the problem: Governments tend to crave money. Governments get their feelings hurt if somebody OTHER than them gets money - which government officials tend to equate (for good reason) with power.


    Quote Originally Posted by Intense View Post
    I'm mixed. I've seen from the housing projects around NYC, kids that are not fed at home, if not for School Programs, they would be in trouble, something that would force the hand of Child Services, for better or worse. The Breakfast?Lunch programs are a crutch, that does lead to dependency, true. There is a real problem and it is compound. Another factor to consider in wasted money, is an inventory in how much gets thrown out by the kid's uneaten, untouched. There is allot of waste. One thing is for sure, One size fit's all, centralized planning does not work.
    Absolutely right. I'm all for helping the needy - too often our tax dollars get wasted on the 'want-y' - those who simply WANT a free ride; as opposed to those who truly NEED a free ride for awhile.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConHog View Post
    There is of course no such monopoly. You're free to send your child to public/private school OR home school them. I guess it's true that the government mandates that you can't simply not educate your children, but that's probably a good thing.
    Tell that to those who do not have the means to utilize private schools nor the time to home school. My point was irrefutable, even you said that you're own district couldn't support charter schools due to various factors.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    Since this has been a hot topic, I looked at the cafeteria as I was walking the minions to assembly. The cafeteria was pretty much packed. But a majority of the kids seem to be well-clothed, put-together ... definitely not what one would describe as needy or underfed.

    It occurs to me that perhaps as I think has been pointed out, the fact of the program being there encourages parents to be lazy. They may pay for the breakfasts and pay full price, as opposed to those who get a discount or free breakfast/lunch but is it necessary? My kids would definitely qualify for discounted/free breakfast and/or lunch but I find it a point of responsibility that I/we provide for them. Our breakfasts and lunches may not be the fanciest but they are basically healthy (they even take a veggie in their lunch ) and I know what they are eating. Our boys make their own lunches under supervision, of course, so they eat it better and they take on some responsibility for themselves.

    Why have kids if you're gonna have somebody else take care of them? Never understood that.
    so you actually advocate just doing away with school provided lunches altogether, not just the "welfare meals?"


    Not sure how I feel about that to be honest. While it is true that in an ideal world that isn't really a school's responsibility. I think we all can all agree that in today's world most families need the convenience of just giving the kid $10 for school provided lunches or whatever.

    I blame feminists, if they wouldn't have made stay at home mom's feel like they weren't worthy, that would have prevented a lot of our social ills from happening.

    And no, I'm NOT saying a woman's place is in the kitchen. I'm making a larger point. Some of you perhaps have read my thoughts on that elsewhere, but it's not really the subject of this thread, so I'll stop there. Suffice to say, I would probably be okay with NO school lunches.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConHog View Post
    I blame feminists, if they wouldn't have made stay at home mom's feel like they weren't worthy, that would have prevented a lot of our social ills from happening.

    And no, I'm NOT saying a woman's place is in the kitchen.
    I agree with you in principle. Couple that with our citizens 'demands' for higher wages; without thinking twice about the then-higher-costs and we have what we have today: Inflation and struggling. Oh - toss on a dallop of revolving credit debt and yeah - two-income families are the norm, sadly.

    But. Here's the But. Parents have a choice. Everyone has choices. Despite working schedules and tiredness, parents OWE it to their kids to ensure the kids are fed adquately. That's not to say "every time somebody says it's lunch time a kid MUST eat". It's to say 'hunger' is a systematic problem. "Being hungry" is an instance. For an instance, most kids can miss a meal.

    Most people can, for that matter.

    Back to choices - My wife's last dance is about midnight; sometimes later. She gets home between midnight and 2am. After she washes off the remaining glitter, she gets to bed - maybe - about 2:30-3am. She Chooses to rise up to her knees, and pushes herself up off the mattress and down onto the floor - as she puts her little toes into fuzzy slippers, promptly at 0630. She does this to ensure our daughter is up and ready for school. My wife then stands there, and watches / attends to our daughter as the kid waits for the school bus. Back in bed, sometimes, for a 30 minute quicky until she repeats for our son. Thus, her bed life is a series of ups and downs. In and outs. Of bed.

    Choices. My wife made the choice to work her body all night for extra income, and then wear herself out in bed, what with the crazy sleep patterns.

    If WE can do this. If SHE can do what it takes, anybody can. While my wife is a special breed of woman, she's only human. Just like anyone else. No superpowers I can speak of on a family-friendly forum.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

  14. #104
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    If someone believes the food their child is getting in school is not healthy/good enough, then send your kids to school with prepared meals that are to your satisfaction.
    Simple.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    If someone believes the food their child is getting in school is not healthy/good enough, then send your kids to school with prepared meals that are to your satisfaction.
    Simple.
    Even simpler - send your kid to the school with a meal that meets your requirements.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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