I'm aware.
Ivan believes that the Soviets rescued Ukrainians from occupying Pollocks. Somehow.
If any country is blameless in the run up and ensuing shenanigans, it would be Poland. They got a pretty raw deal from both sides.
Check Your Six
I'm aware.
Ivan believes that the Soviets rescued Ukrainians from occupying Pollocks. Somehow.
If any country is blameless in the run up and ensuing shenanigans, it would be Poland. They got a pretty raw deal from both sides.
Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum
Super Minion
and the Czechs.Originally Posted by NightTrain
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
Requoting what our one-post poster had to say (or is that, more accurately, 'regurgitate' .. ?) concerning Ukraine:
.... yeahhh ... !! ......The documents of the Ministry of Defense also talk about how the inhabitants of Western Ukraine with flowers in their hands and with tears in their eyes met the Soviet troops, who liberated them during the Polish campaign from oppression by the Poles and invaders.
So, I'm wondering: how much 'more oppressive' were these alleged 'Poles and invaders', then ... than, THIS ....
https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin
So, Ukrainians had good cause to see Russians as 'liberators', there to 'save' them from 'invaders' ??At the height of the 1932-33 Ukrainian famine under Joseph Stalin, starving people roamed the countryside, desperate for something, anything to eat. In the village of Stavyshche, a young peasant boy watched as the wanderers dug into empty gardens with their bare hands. Many were so emaciated, he recalled, that their bodies began to swell and stink from the extreme lack of nutrients.
"You could see them walking about, just walking and walking, and one would drop, and then another, and so on it went," he said many years later, in a case history collected in the late 1980s by a Congressional commission. In the cemetery outside the village hospital, overwhelmed doctors carried the bodies on stretchers and tossed them into an enormous pit.
The Ukrainian famine—known as the Holodomor, a combination of the Ukrainian words for “starvation” and “to inflict death”—by one estimate claimed the lives of 3.9 million people, about 13 percent of the population. And, unlike other famines in history caused by blight or drought, this was caused when a dictator wanted both to replace Ukraine’s small farms with state-run collectives and punish independence-minded Ukrainians who posed a threat to his totalitarian authority.
"The Ukrainian famine was a clear case of a man-made famine,” explains Alex de Waal, executive director of the World Peace Foundation at Tufts University and author of the 2018 book, Mass Starvation: The History and Future of Famine. He describes it as “a hybrid…of a famine caused by calamitous social-economic policies and one aimed at a particular population for repression or punishment.”
This 'MostFamous' joker really needs to be de-programmed very badly, I'm thinking. Unless, of course, s/he thinks of mass starvation as something which the victims of it should remember 'fondly' ... ?
It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!
Just Me
Interesting.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Just Me
I'll start with something that might be interesting: Was watching the little one earlier so I peeked at this on my phone. I read the entire OP thinking kathianne had posted it. The WTF? meter was off the chart, to say the least
BUT ... it completely threw my perception therefore perspective off enough to actually read the OP seriously .... I didn't catch that it was some fly-by until I logged in on my PC.
We DO overplay our role in the History of the World since 1776. We overplay our role even in THAT. The Cold War just exacerbated the situation. That being said, while Ivan the Terrible up there was fighting NAZI Germany, the US was supplying Europe, the ME, fighting Germany, AND had a war "on the side" with Japan.
All I can say to THAT is "Russia WHO?" A country incapable of technology due to purges of anything intelligent, that can base all its technology on who they stole it from. Had a lot of bodies though. Probably saved us the trouble of killing more Germans.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Life, Love, Truth, 3 gems
Russia suffered terrible losses, both its soldiers and its civilians-- Leningrad and Stalingrad both prove that point- yet one must remember at the war's start they were allied in a pact with Hitler. And while we were fighting both Germany and Japan-- they only fought Germany and did so on their home turf.I'll start with something that might be interesting: Was watching the little one earlier so I peeked at this on my phone. I read the entire OP thinking kathianne had posted it. The WTF? meter was off the chart, to say the least
BUT ... it completely threw my perception therefore perspective off enough to actually read the OP seriously .... I didn't catch that it was some fly-by until I logged in on my PC.
We DO overplay our role in the History of the World since 1776. We overplay our role even in THAT. The Cold War just exacerbated the situation. That being said, while Ivan the Terrible up there was fighting NAZI Germany, the US was supplying Europe, the ME, fighting Germany, AND had a war "on the side" with Japan.
All I can say to THAT is "Russia WHO?" A country incapable of technology due to purges of anything intelligent, that can base all its technology on who they stole it from. Had a lot of bodies though. Probably saved us the trouble of killing more Germans.
While we had to ship everything overseas, they had it there at hand and we gave them supplies as well.
We even launched an attack(to draw away German forces) primarily to give their much beleaguered and grievously battered forces some much needed respite!
However, I will not trivialize their immense contributions, nor their fighting strength once they got better organized and equipped.
After all, they did destroy three German armies on their soil and invaded Germany with us and our allies to end Hitler's murderous reign.
The post that attempts to state they overshadow our effort is badly, sadly and magnificently misinformed- IMHO.
I have studied a great many empires , wars , generals, battles - and WW2 comes in second in my studies only to our own Civil war and barely above my study of Caesar's campaigns, Alexander the Great and his conquering most of the ancient world,
And Hannibal's brutal 15 year long savaging of the great Roman Empire -even during its mightiest period.
Last edited by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot; 09-14-2019 at 01:53 PM.
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
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