Senior Member
I hate to say this bro, but from what I gather from your informing posts and observations, the UK doesn't sound much better than communist China or Russia when it comes to what it allows people to hear and read. Just unreal.Originally Posted by Drummond
I might revise the above statement to... "your state run media"... at least you still have the ability to search the internet without restrictions... I assume.
Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 03-27-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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Thatcherite Minion
I have to correct you. Not 'unreal' ...... VERY real !!
The UK's version of bias and attitude-management is far more subtle than you'd get from either China or Russia. Think George Orwell. What matters, as he brilliantly observed, that if you master peoples' very thoughts, you have no need of draconian authoritarianism. Craft a concept of what is or is not socially acceptable (example: our NHS, and the perception that possessing an equivalent to it marks any society out as being properly developed and civilised) ... and, once that's taken on board as a 'foundling value', it's nigh-on impossible to reverse it.
America has no equivalent of our NHS. Conclusion: it's socially under-developed as a civilised society. It is, consequently, 'wrong-headed'.
Who promoted that thinking ? THE LEFT.
The Left has no tolerance for thinking not in lockstep with its own. It wants everyone to think as they do, and it works to make sure that's true. Here in the UK, a lot has been achieved by the Left to make that true ... BUT .... not through force. Just dripfeeding of ideas and attitudes over literally generations.
Force is something you can see as deserving of resistance. But, impose your very thinking upon the population, make them think that those thoughts are their own ... and, you see nothing to resist.
So we're not Russia or China. We might just as well be, in certain ways. But, we're not.
An example: I know that US forces found in excess of 500 degraded WMD's in Iraq. How ? Because I study American material. I know that in June 2006, Rick Santorum held a press conference where he publicised a newly declassified portion of an Intelligence document that SAID they'd been found.
Some of your news outlets covered it (Fox News displayed pictures showing the very pages of print).
But, NONE of ours did. Nowhere in Europe was that news disseminated. There was a total lockdown against releasing it.
I know that anyone I tell, here, that WMD's were found, will never, ever, believe me. Why ? Because OUR LEFT has made sure that its version of the 'truth' is there, and can't be questioned.
It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!
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Senior Member
I had to revise my above post.
Yes, your leftist propaganda wing doesn't sound much different than our democrat propaganda wing here, although we're not forced to finance their pap. It's a disgusting display of unhinged hatred and bias.
Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 03-27-2020 at 10:39 AM.
Thatcherite Minion
Yes.
The Left thinks globally. Your version of Left will only be different to ours, in terms of its need to identify with whatever makes you different from us, or us to you. The goals will be the same, the Leftie dream identical.
But at least your people can see what they propagate for what it really is, and since that's true, it can be resisted. Here, if you see bias and hatred as actually 'the norm', and only reflective of a perceived reality .... how do you see anything to resist ?
The Left's entrenched influence over our State broadcaster is quite a coup for them. The BBC is seen as an authoritative media voice over here. People WILL listen to it, and be prepared to swallow anything they disseminate.
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Senior Member
It's a crying shame, brother. Not to be able to SPEAK YOUR MIND without LEGAL repercussions, even to identify the obvious, something everyone KNOWS is the TRUTH, but yet you can't SAY ANYTHING about it... that's just draconian, apocalyptic circumstances there, but yet it's your reality. I feel for ya man, no one should have to live under such tyranny. No wonder your tyrannical leftist propaganda wing views America as such an uncontrolled mob. We can say and think what we want, we're not UNDER CONTROL. We're all REBELS and UNCIVILIZED OUTLAWS. I hope it's not your leftists still stinging from us kicking them out centuries ago. In any case, if it wasn't for us the UK would probably be speaking German. I guess that's all been forgotten by your left. So much for gratitude.
I never knew the UK was like that. This is all a learning experience for me, and quite shocking.
Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 03-27-2020 at 11:30 AM.
Thatcherite Minion
The greatest danger for us is, and always will be, that we continue to believe in our freedom, that we have total faith that our thoughts are our own, and would never be open to being convinced otherwise .. when, in fact, our thoughts are not ours, but what the Left have conditioned us to think.
Belief in freedom, championing it, when it doesn't exist -- only the illusion of it. The Left would love seeing that status quo so consolidated that it could never be challenged. They continually work towards that goal.
[Our people (mostly !) 'KNOW' that anti-Islamism is 'racist'. Even though it's not. They 'know' that controls over freedom of speech against Muslims is justifiable. Even though it's not.]
The 'beauty' of it is that the fewer people become so much as capable of seeing that as a tyranny, the better, if the Left have their way. We're meant to feel GOOD about all this, that it all encourages an 'enlightened' behaviour.
The goal is to institute a tyranny, that nobody could ever see for what it was. Looking like, feeling like, a free and healthy social order, where people are relatively happy .. just so long as they never think an un-approvable thought.
Forget references to the past, if I were you. The Left SHOULD care (should feel gratitude about your decisive intervention in WWII), but they do NOT. This has nothing to do with any events from centuries ago. Leftists are global. All they care about is instituting their control, and achieving their preferred effect. It's about making the future what they insist it must be ... through absolutely everybody's eyes.
We are good people. I insist that this is so.
But, we're increasingly CONDITIONED people. We opened the door to extreme Leftism a very long time ago. It's not a mistake that the US ever dares to make for itself.
Last edited by Drummond; 03-27-2020 at 12:11 PM.
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Senior Member
HOW did you ESCAPE all the thought control? There HAS to be others like you in Britain.
And I would never contend that the people of Britain are "bad people," I see them all as victims.
Have you never thought of getting the hell OTTA THERE? America can use people like you, and we'd welcome you with open arms. Wisconsin has plenty of room...
Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 03-27-2020 at 01:49 PM.
Super Minion
I listen to him whenever I can, including the presser where he was quite adamant, I think BBC is factual, if spinning somewhat left. The thing with this president, you never quite know if he means what he's projecting, he may be projecting that he's going to let the 'economy pop back' whatever the cost, while he actually is going to do something that is much more measured. I hope that's the case here-I think the other would be a disaster. It does seem he's slowly looking like he wants a middle road.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Super Minion
Umm, BBC is not the government or the people, anymore than NYT or Red State is America's.Good Lord...
And here I thought the UK was a decent ally of America. Surely that would appear to be in question.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Senior Member
Ya know Kath, I think part of why Trump says a lot of the things he does is to keep the democrat propaganda wing always guessing, off balance, knowing they'll take the bait and say crazy things. Then he can bash them back on social media the way they're always bashing him. I think it's a strategy of his. Course I'm just surmising.
Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 03-27-2020 at 01:54 PM.
Super Minion
I'm quite sure that is what I was implying, but it's not just the left. Indeed, some of his core supporters are flooding social media with how ending the social distancing is just what is needed, both for economic and psychological reasons. They buy his projections every time too. In this case, the costs may be high.
I don't know what has happened to people on the left or right. Take this ijit Massy, putting so many at risk, for what? Then there's AOC's puppet, Pelosi, who would have seriously screwed things up even more if not for Schumer.
None are acting as Americans first, but as two extreme versions of empty vessels.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
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Senior Member
I agree. But I'll also add that Trump, like anyone else, does have his share of STUPID people that won't THINK before they support what he say's or does. I surely don't. I've been very critical of a few things he's said and done. The people that do just blindly go along with EVERYTHING he say's should be discounted as quickly as democrat people blindly supporting ridiculous things their party leaders say and do.
And that Massy... ya... he can't STOP the final vote or change it's outcome. What he's doing is sheer stupidity and grandstanding ignorance.
Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 03-27-2020 at 02:09 PM.
Super Minion
Part of the reason I think so many are hating all of the politicos so much is their followers. I actually expect politicians to be narcissistic idiots. What I don't expect is all the nonsense of 'not my president' and willing to jump off a cliff for what their leaders want or don't get. They'll burn down the castle.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
I think I escaped it because of the way all my experiences knitted together.HOW did you ESCAPE all the thought control? There HAS to be others like you in Britain.
And I would never contend that the people of Britain are "bad people," I see them all as victims.
Have you never thought of getting the hell OTTA THERE? America can use people like you, and we'd welcome you with open arms. Wisconsin has plenty of room...
I started out as a Leftie, myself, believing their Utopianist rot, thinking that people could take on specific values, be guided into them, be improved as a result, with society benefitting by having 'better people' within it.
But ... I saw Left-wing militancy in action. The Three Day Working week, and all the suffering the associated strikes caused. Ditto, only far worse still, I lived through the Winter of Discontent. More Left-wing militancy. More chaos and destruction.
I learned lessons from it, from those experiences. So-called 'Socialists' were only human beings, 'prey' to their human natures. Humanity is self-serving, and no amount of dogma can override that. So, greed took over, and the fabric of our society suffered damage.
I'm old enough to have lived through that. Many, here, are not.
I went through an epiphany, which few others did. Lesson: people need the freedom to be what THEY ARE. You can't crush human nature, and Socialism insists upon legislating for it, whereas Conservatism SERVES it.
Few people learned what I did, from the reason I had to learn what I did. This, I think, is why comparatively few people are like me.
We've youngsters in the UK who were willing to see Corbyn's politics as 'new' and 'refreshing', just because they know no better. I, however, do. I know Corbyn's politics as being old, and discredited. I learned the lesson that many, now, may have to learn for themselves, some time in the future.
Yes, we're victims of Leftie illusion and manipulation. Thanks for seeing us for what we are: their victims.
Truth be told, I'm just too long in the tooth to uproot myself and go to a different part of the planet. Besides, I've never run away from a battle. God knows, my country offers many ..........
Thatcherite Minion
The BBC is certainly factual when it can be, yes. But it does manipulate, too. It'll attribute great weight to one side of a story, and very little to any aspect not in line with what it wants people to consider.
The BBC did not menton one word of WMD's (degraded ones) being found by 2006, in Iraq. It said nothing about Santorum's press conference on the subject.
A couple of years ago, Hamas launched rockets into Israel, precipitating Israel's inevitably strong response. All the BBC could do was concentrate on the 'immense suffering' the Gazan people were suffering from it. Virtually nothing was said of how Israel suffers from Hamas terrorism.
Consider how terrorism reports are handled, and the ban on calling a terrorist, A TERRORIST, unless someone else already has. What else is that, but attitude-management ?
As for Brexit (!!) ... the BBC fed us an unrelenting diet of scare stories about Brexit, prompting the Sun newspaper to publish THIS:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/105752...s-licence-fee/
The BBC is manipulative. It skews stories as it sees fit. That's just a fact, Kathianne.BBC’s anti-Brexit bias drips through their entire output — their licence fee days are numbered
HOW very BBC that it should respond to charges of bias against the Conservatives by inviting Labour MP Andy McDonald on to the Today programme on Monday and egging him on to say the BBC was biased against Jeremy Corbyn.
Look at us, the corporation is trying to say, we’re being attacked from both sides, so we must have got our balance just right.
Sorry, but it won’t wash. The most grievous example of “bias” that McDonald could come up with was a BBC reporter who on election night referred to the “election victory that Boris Johnson so deserves” rather than, as she meant to say, the election victory he so desires.
Against that, we had six weeks of battering Boris Johnson and his Government — and of course continuing to rubbish Brexit. I am sure the BBC was disappointed that Boris rejected the invitation to be interviewed by Andrew Neil. But that doesn’t excuse its hysterical reaction.
Ironically, on the day Neil lambasted Johnson for refusing to appear on his show, the Prime Minister took part in an hour-long live BBC debate with Jeremy Corbyn. That is something no serving Prime Minister had agreed to do until Gordon Brown in 2010.
Boris also took part in a Question Time special, being interviewed by a live audience, he was interviewed by Andrew Marr and spoke with numerous other broadcasters and publications. And of course, Boris had to run the country as well as campaign for the election.
During the week the Andrew Neil interview would have taken place the Prime Minister was hosting a Nato summit. I’ve just been through the Twitter feed of the BBC’s “Reality Check” correspondent.
EVEN EASTENDERS PLOT IS ANTI-BREXIT
Since the parties launched their campaigns, 39 of its tweets rejected claims made by the Conservatives and two tweets were generally supportive of claims the party had made.
By contrast, only seven tweets rejected claims made by Labour, while 13 supported its claims. Not one tweet, though, dealt with the biggest lie of the campaign by far — Labour’s charge that the Conservatives are planning to sell off the NHS.
No evidence for this was produced — and yet, day after day, BBC news bulletins returned to this subject. BBC News seized on the story of Boris refusing to look at a photograph on a reporter’s phone of a sick child being treated on the floor of an NHS hospital.
Yet the following day, when Jon Ashworth, a senior Shadow Cabinet minister, was revealed to have described Jeremy Corbyn as a threat to national security, the BBC downplayed the story, suggesting Ashworth had merely been engaging in “banter”. The BBC has tried all it can to undermine Brexit.
Week after week it leads news bulletins with claims by Remain-supporting think tanks that the economy would crash as a result of Brexit — while simultaneously downplaying real economic data showing healthy economic growth and very strong jobs figures
Time will tell to see what balance Trump strikes. I'll be very surprised, though, if the BBC doesn't spin it in some fashion.
For example, they were one news outlet insisting that Trump HAD called Covid-19 'a hoax'.
Last edited by Drummond; 03-27-2020 at 02:48 PM.
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