Dispensationalism: Apostasy in the church

[TheSage]

Actually, most evangelicals are obsessing with, well, evangelizing. Imagine that.

I'm glad they're evangelizing, i just wish they were evangelizing the message of christ, not the tyranny of talmudic legalism.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[darin]

I'm glad they're evangelizing, i just wish they were evangelizing the message of christ, not the tyranny of talmudic legalism.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Those verses would be MUCH stronger if they were in proper english

[5stringJeff]

I'm glad they're evangelizing, i just wish they were evangelizing the message of christ, not the tyranny of talmudic legalism.

And I'm sure you have it on good authority that Christians are spreading the Good Word of Noahidism, right?

[TheSage]

And I'm sure you have it on good authority that Christians are spreading the Good Word of Noahidism, right?

I told you, on the christian side it's called dispensationalism (dispensational premillenialism) and christian zionism. Please keep up.

[darin]

I told you, on the christian side it's called dispensationalism (dispensational premillenialism) and christian zionism. Please keep up.

Yet you can't cite specific examples? Your fears are irrational, RWA. No church I've ever attended preached what you claim is 'widespread'.

[Nienna]

Dude. Im saying "your church". If your church doesn't teach this crap, then kindly tell me what they do say.

"Most churches" is a legitimate construct. I cannot name most churches. Can we start with yours? What does yours say? I don't attend an organized church, but I'm down with jesus. He was the ultimate rebel.

Jesus was NOT a rebel. Jesus' life was a masterpiece of submission.

[Nienna]

What will you do when when everyone starts telling you to just obey the noahide laws and forget about jesus, that the whole point of jesus was to bring the gentiles back to rabbi worship?

Read them the book of Romans.

[jillian]

Jesus was NOT a rebel. Jesus' life was a masterpiece of submission.

Jesus was a radical, actually. He took on the hierarchy of the religious structure of the day. Don't forget him turning over the money-lenders tables in front of the Temple.

[darin]

Jesus was a radical, actually. He took on the hierarchy of the religious structure of the day. Don't forget him turning over the money-lenders tables in front of the Temple.

That had nothing to do with the religious structure of the day; that was him getting pissed off at the greed of the church. Honestly, Christ came into the world to FULLFILL everything the Jewish church had stood for and prepared for. He wanted the Structure of the Church to do what it was set-up to do; bring people into a relationship with God.

[jillian]

That had nothing to do with the religious structure of the day; that was him getting pissed off at the greed of the church. Honestly, Christ came into the world to FULLFILL everything the Jewish church had stood for and prepared for. He wanted the Structure of the Church to do what it was set-up to do; bring people into a relationship with God.

No.. it had everything to do with him taking on the San Hedrin. And there was no Church then, Darin. There was only the Temple. Jews don't go to churches. I know the difference isn't a biggie to you, but trust me, I don't go to Church.

On the subject of him wanting a pure Temple, absolutely. But he thought the San Hedrin was corrupting its purity. Being an Essene, he certainly wouldn't have approved of that.

[darin]

No.. it had everything to do with him taking on the San Hedrin. And there was no Church then, Darin. There was only the Temple. Jews don't go to churches. I know the difference isn't a biggie to you, but trust me, I don't go to Church.

On the subject of him wanting a pure Temple, absolutely. But he thought the San Hedrin was corrupting its purity. Being an Essene, he certainly wouldn't have approved of that.

Okay - we'll play semantics. The Jewish Leadership - their rituals and history and practice of their faith was set up so Jesus would VALIDATE all that stuff. Jesus is the fullfillment of all they did; If they weren't corrupted by their sin, they may have saw it.

[jillian]

Okay - we'll play semantics. The Jewish Leadership - their rituals and history and practice of their faith was set up so Jesus would VALIDATE all that stuff. Jesus is the fullfillment of all they did; If they weren't corrupted by their sin, they may have saw it.

Depends on what one believes Jesus was, no? And it isn't semantics to me. Like I said, I understand that isn't something that would be an issue to you.

[darin]

Depends on what one believes Jesus was, no? And it isn't semantics to me. Like I said, I understand that isn't something that would be an issue to you.

No - who Jesus is and was does NOT depend on who people BELIEVE him to be. Jesus IS who he says he IS...period. it's an absolute truth.

[TheSage]

Yet you can't cite specific examples? Your fears are irrational, RWA. No church I've ever attended preached what you claim is 'widespread'.

It's widespread. Just talk to most people. Talk to avatar4321.

[TheSage]

Jesus was NOT a rebel. Jesus' life was a masterpiece of submission.

To god maybe, but not to the authority of the sanhedrin and the rabbis, as jillian pointed out. He did unacceptable things like commiserate with lowlifes and prostitutes, work on the sabbath, touch sick people, flip over the tables at the temple where they were commoditizing religion with the temple exchange system.