How many billions to be tossed away!!????

[logroller]

This discussion about MRAP is important here on DP because?????????

Would anyone care to tell, or share what talking about the BILLIONS being wasted...other than for the MRAP's? Like...the more important, more visible, much easier to control spending???

Sure. Take your pick:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...13_Weapons.pdf
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...14_Weapons.pdf

I am not the one saying a million dollar war weapon is not worth shipping back. And if you believe that bullshit that it would cost 250,000 each to ship back you need some serious help my friend. That is pure Pentagon justification right there. And Obama is CiC in case you don't know WHAT that means = he appoints the SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WHICH HE THEN GETS TO TELL TO DO CRAP LIKE THIS. The buck stops with Obama, wiggle how you like and pretend he knows nothing about nothing . His party and he himself hates our military, so why are you adamant in defending him on this? Sure he doesn't have to issue an Executive Order or send a written command to get it done. He simply tells his chief of staff to tell the Secretary of Defense to do it. Sure you say no big deal as 7 billion is peanuts but hey those peanuts add up if you do enough of them.

AGAIN. There's a limited budget and costs need to deliver the maximum benefit. These HALF-million dollar machines have been to war-- They're not exactly cherry and heir value sitting in some military junkyard is probably less than their scrap value. Not to mention only about 10% are being scrapped-- likely the models which proved the least durable. I think you're being extremely irrational about this. The war's over; downsize the fleet-- historically speaking its pretty standard protocol.

How and why people so dearly want to not hold the damn Commander in Chief responsible for the waste and corruption when its the damn military is beyond my reasoning out.

wasteful and corruption? Just how much money should we spend to bring something back to rot? And what's corrupt about downsizing after war?

All those excuses you gave were put forth by the Pentagon. Do you think the Pentagon runs the CiC or the other way around? bamscum gives a damn order heads will row if its not carried out no matter how damn many stars they have on their shoulders! Bamscum has canned many career officers for much less and also for simply not playing ball with his treason.--Tyr

Disobeying orders, no matter how many stars one has on their shoulders is not only grounds for dismissal, but court martial. UCMJ Art 92. I get that you hate Obama but in the present case you've passed into frothing madness IMHO.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and your Don Juan the bouncer machismo conceals your true calling as a program-level military appropriations analyst. Audit the following:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...M_Overview.pdf

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sure. Take your pick:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...13_Weapons.pdf
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...14_Weapons.pdf


AGAIN. There's a limited budget and costs need to deliver the maximum benefit. These HALF-million dollar machines have been to war-- They're not exactly cherry and heir value sitting in some military junkyard is probably less than their scrap value. Not to mention only about 10% are being scrapped-- likely the models which proved the least durable. I think you're being extremely irrational about this. The war's over; downsize the fleet-- historically speaking its pretty standard protocol.


wasteful and corruption? Just how much money should we spend to bring something back to rot? And what's corrupt about downsizing after war?


Disobeying orders, no matter how many stars one has on their shoulders is not only grounds for dismissal, but court martial. UCMJ Art 92. I get that you hate Obama but in the present case you've passed into frothing madness IMHO.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and your Don Juan the bouncer machismo conceals your true calling as a program-level military appropriations analyst. Audit the following:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...M_Overview.pdf

Accepting the numbers the Pentagon uses to justify its actions in waste and corruption seems to be a bit naïve . Its like accepting as valid a career criminal's justification for why he engages in illegal acts. Certainly not frothy madness but shows a level of gullibility that sometimes amuses me. But hey maybe I am wrong and your high level analytical judgment reigns supreme despite your insecurity that leads you to insult me with such tripe about my personal revelations of my life.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and your Don Juan the bouncer machismo conceals your true calling as a program-level military appropriations analyst.

Maybe it's just my honesty that leads you to feel the need to toss in insults while presenting your genius. You know I have never claimed perfection myself and freely admit that I am wrong sometimes. I just do not admit such until I see it proven to me. Its called integrity. You know the thing that honesty brings you. I tell ya I was about to give serious look at what you were presenting until I saw the insult. Now I believe I'll just dismiss it as window dressing for the true message you sought to convey. Despite your obvious belief of my character and personality, I am not some dumbass country hick. I suggest you should stick to the subject and not toss in insults that reveal your true motive. But hey that just me and its a free world . At least here in USA it is if bamscum doesn't get to complete its destruction. -Tyr

[fj1200]

I am not the one saying a million dollar war weapon is not worth shipping back. And if you believe that bullshit that it would cost 250,000 each to ship back you need some serious help my friend. That is pure Pentagon justification right there. And Obama is CiC in case you don't know WHAT that means = he appoints the SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WHICH HE THEN GETS TO TELL TO DO CRAP LIKE THIS. The buck stops with Obama, wiggle how you like and pretend he knows nothing about nothing . His party and he himself hates our military, so why are you adamant in defending him on this? Sure he doesn't have to issue an Executive Order or send a written command to get it done. He simply tells his chief of staff to tell the Secretary of Defense to do it. Sure you say no big deal as 7 billion is peanuts but hey those peanuts add up if you do enough of them. How and why people so dearly want to not hold the damn Commander in Chief responsible for the waste and corruption when its the damn military is beyond my reasoning out. All those excuses you gave were put forth by the Pentagon. Do you think the Pentagon runs the CiC or the other way around? bamscum gives a damn order heads will row if its not carried out no matter how damn many stars they have on their shoulders! Bamscum has canned many career officers for much less and also for simply not playing ball with his treason.--Tyr

I don't even know what to say anymore. Apparently links, logic, and the professional army making future equipment judgments is worth less than claiming BO is attempting to bankrupt the country $5BB at a time.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I don't even know what to say anymore. Apparently links, logic, and the professional army making future equipment judgments is worth less than claiming BO is attempting to bankrupt the country $5BB at a time.

No, we just disagree. You accept the excuses made by the people profiting and doing the deeds while I am skeptical of accepting facts coming from the robbers and traitors. How about the possibility that should any massive bombing campaign (by muslim terrorists) start here in the near future such weapons would come in handy but have been destroyed? Such a possibility exists you know. And while you are so set against bamscum taking responsibility for such waste how about his secret Iran negotiations that sacrifice Israel's and our nation's best interests? Shouldn't his overall character and actions weigh in on my judgment that accuses him of deliberately weakening our military by any and every means he can find? No pun intended but I paint the bastard black because like no other President in this nation's history he is black! I give you credit for presenting your evidence and not taking cheap shots at me personally but still I do not accept all of it. The truth may be a mixture of both our positions where the military does it more for the reasons you gave while Obama goes along with or put the concept out there for them because he knows it further weakens our military. -Tyr

[aboutime]

Sure. Take your pick:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...13_Weapons.pdf
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...14_Weapons.pdf


AGAIN. There's a limited budget and costs need to deliver the maximum benefit. These HALF-million dollar machines have been to war-- They're not exactly cherry and heir value sitting in some military junkyard is probably less than their scrap value. Not to mention only about 10% are being scrapped-- likely the models which proved the least durable. I think you're being extremely irrational about this. The war's over; downsize the fleet-- historically speaking its pretty standard protocol.


wasteful and corruption? Just how much money should we spend to bring something back to rot? And what's corrupt about downsizing after war?


Disobeying orders, no matter how many stars one has on their shoulders is not only grounds for dismissal, but court martial. UCMJ Art 92. I get that you hate Obama but in the present case you've passed into frothing madness IMHO.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and your Don Juan the bouncer machismo conceals your true calling as a program-level military appropriations analyst. Audit the following:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbu...M_Overview.pdf

There is nothing wrong with HONEST downsizing AFTER a war. However. The war is not over just because the OBAM-IDIOT says so in keeping his promise to bring the troops home. The troops he despises, and has no trouble BETRAYING, every chance he gets.

As for the madness. Obama, and anyone who has their lips glued to his ass because they voted for him, or love him...are the real mad, frothing idiots you failed to mention.
But then. You wouldn't dare TALK ABOUT YOUR FRIENDS that way...log.

[logroller]

Accepting the numbers the Pentagon uses to justify its actions in waste and corruption seems to be a bit naïve . Its like accepting as valid a career criminal's justification for why he engages in illegal acts. Certainly not frothy madness but shows a level of gullibility that sometimes amuses me. But hey maybe I am wrong and your high level analytical judgment reigns supreme despite your insecurity that leads you to insult me with such tripe about my personal revelations of my life.


Maybe it's just my honesty that leads you to feel the need to toss in insults while presenting your genius. You know I have never claimed perfection myself and freely admit that I am wrong sometimes. I just do not admit such until I see it proven to me. Its called integrity. You know the thing that honesty brings you. I tell ya I was about to give serious look at what you were presenting until I saw the insult. Now I believe I'll just dismiss it as window dressing for the true message you sought to convey. Despite your obvious belief of my character and personality, I am not some dumbass country hick. I suggest you should stick to the subject and not toss in insults that reveal your true motive. But hey that just me and its a free world . At least here in USA it is if bamscum doesn't get to complete its destruction. -Tyr

Insults? You have, time and again testamented to your exploits with women and prowess as a bouncer despite any relevance to the topic--"no brag--just fact"...ergo machismo. Not insulting anymore than your unrelenting assertions against the 'blind stupid obamascum fools' etc of those who illuminate the flaws in your logic. Never implied you were stupid, just that you know a lot more about pugilism than balance sheets.
Now I'm a "genius" for pointing out your jumping to a conclusion about post operational logistics and expeditures?
you don't have to be a genius to realize that when combat operations end you don't need as many combat vehicles, and when the ops money runs out, you gotta cut something. I've said as much in my first post... Which was met with 'that'd be fine' but look at all these anecdotes of those who likely just have an axe to grind.'nice try though'

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Insults? You have, time and again testamented to your exploits with women and prowess as a bouncer despite any relevance to the topic--"no brag--just fact"...ergo machismo.

Really? Relevant to the subject being discussed how? Do explain--if you can... --Tyr

Not insulting anymore than your unrelenting assertions against the 'blind stupid obamascum fools' etc of those who illuminate the flaws in your logic.

That is a reference to a rather large group of citizens in this nation not any one member here.

'blind stupid obamascum fools'

Yet you feel it justification for your little attempted put down directed at me. Come on man , don't be so silly as to try to justify tossing in the insult and then try to say it was not a personal insult tossed at me from out of the blue. I didnt fall off a turnip truck yesterday Hoss.
By the way ,exactly what exploits did I detail with women? That I dated a lot in my 59+ years. True but what about it made you think its worth mentioning in a reply on this subject matter? Hoss, my logic is sound= that comment had no justification and was an insult. Who are you trying to kid? -Tyr

[logroller]

There is nothing wrong with HONEST downsizing AFTER a war.

Well if you want to talk about honesty, we'd do well to consider why congress hasn't declared "war" since 1942.

However. The war is not over just because the OBAM-IDIOT says so ...

Legally, according to the 2001 Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Te rrorists, it sorta does.

That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autho...nst_Terrorists
So if he determines those responsible for 9/11 are neutralized...

As for the madness. Obama, and anyone who has their lips glued to his ass because they voted for him, or love him...are the real mad, frothing idiots you failed to mention.
But then. You wouldn't dare TALK ABOUT YOUR FRIENDS that way...log.

I don't have any friends that voted for Obama; family, yes, but I can't choose my family. I thought you wanted to discuss wasteful spending; now you want to talk about my friends...Just more of your typical bs. Better watch out or tyr will get onto you about being insulting, he's super consistent that way.

[aboutime]

Well if you want to talk about honesty, we'd do well to consider why congress hasn't declared "war" since 1942.



Legally, according to the 2001 Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Te rrorists, it sorta does.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autho...nst_Terrorists
So if he determines those responsible for 9/11 are neutralized...



I don't have any friends that voted for Obama; family, yes, but I can't choose my family. I thought you wanted to discuss wasteful spending; now you want to talk about my friends...Just more of your typical bs. Better watch out or tyr will get onto you about being insulting, he's super consistent that way.

Log. I would never attempt to talk about something you haven't got. Your Obama is showing.

[aboutime]

Here's some really good reading about Billions being wasted.....

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...c-0222cad1c7d5

[logroller]

Here's some really good reading about Billions being wasted.....

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...c-0222cad1c7d5

There were only two related wastes to topic: one was this exact topic, MRAPs, and the ONLY ONE ON THE SCALE OF BILLIONS and the other was Hassan's receiving of pay until he was found guilty. So do you disagree with military member receiving pay until he's find guilty by court martial?

[aboutime]

There were only two related wastes to topic: one was this exact topic, MRAPs, and the ONLY ONE ON THE SCALE OF BILLIONS and the other was Hassan's receiving of pay until he was found guilty. So do you disagree with military member receiving pay until he's find guilty by court martial?

Yep. When the military member is a Proven Terrorist.

[logroller]

Yep. When the military member is a Proven Terrorist.

So you disagree with ucmj code. When you retired did your oath to the constitution retire as well?

[aboutime]

So you disagree with ucmj code. When you retired did your oath to the constitution retire as well?

Nope. The UCMJ you speak of has been adjusted for political reasons, and the war on terror.

If I knew you....while in the military. And you became an enemy of AMERICA, and a traitor who caused the death of anyone. I would still wish the same for YOU.

Wishing, and wanting....are not the same as BEING, or DOING.

So you can patronize someone else to make you feel smarter, and more superior.

And...since you mentioned the UCMJ. Tell me everything you claim to know about it.

[logroller]

Nope. The UCMJ you speak of has been adjusted for political reasons, and the war on terror.

If I knew you....while in the military. And you became an enemy of AMERICA, and a traitor who caused the death of anyone. I would still wish the same for YOU.

Wishing, and wanting....are not the same as BEING, or DOING.

So you can patronize someone else to make you feel smarter, and more superior.

And...since you mentioned the UCMJ. Tell me everything you claim to know about it.

Everything? Well that's a little broad IMO. But Its a piece of legislation that governs military members and like most comprehensive law and its quite complicated; convoluted even; but in a nutshell all members of the us military, even retired in some instances are subject to it-- often in spite of constitutional law that applies to citizens. It includes many of the general civil laws (murder, rape etc) and details when military members are subject to civil law or military law . Like many civil laws it proscribes actions, the punishments for such (from letter of reprimand through execution), the process by which an alleged crime is reported (eg a superior officer must recommend charges), the rights of the suspect (eg to appeal an administrative punishment, a right to an attorney in trial, to confront witnesses, present a defense, innocent until proven guilty, not being discharged while the process ensues including being withheld pay etc), process of court martial (how many jurists, submitting a plea, if it's a court martial the option of a jury of like or above rank, if its capital then it must be jury trial etc).
I can continue, but why--is there something you're curious of? I don't know everything but I can probably find the information you desire.

To the point: your implication of someone receiving pay being unjustified is wrong because because there is ucmj code to prevent someone from being punished financially due to charges being brought forth out of personal vendetta. Now while Hassan's charges weren't the product of capricious prosecution, ucmj law protects against such would it be the case and the rule is just. Were this rule broken it could be used as grounds for an appeal, possibly overturning the verdict and further extending the time before the punishment is meted out.