"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
Here's another way to look at this case
Christians who own a business have no final say in how it's run inline with their beliefs.
So can Chic-Fil-a legally close on Sundays if a customer wants a sandwich, if a homosexual wants a lemonade?
Can A local Roman Catholic pharmacy owner refuse to carry morning after pills?
Can A Muslim bookstore owner refuse to order anti-Muslim books or Porno for anyone even homosexual customers?
Can a Jewish deli owner refuse to sell pork to customers or even homosexual customers with a sausage fetish?
Are they all bigots and "breaking equal access/service laws" if they do?
THEY ARE ALL CLEARLY BUSINESSES.
Please explain the differences here. I see none.
All are Private Businesses with Religious owners who refuse to serve certain customers request for religious reasons.
period. All significant points legal and otherwise exactly the same.
If one is discriminatory, then they all are.
By some people's standards they all must be ordained and take their "businesses" INSIDE the Church/Mosque/Temple or be in violation of the law.
And be considered religious bigots of course.
Last edited by revelarts; 10-20-2014 at 11:22 PM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16
There are natural rights given by God and then there are rights in the Constitution given by man. The right to marriage isn't in there. Right of Association is in there though. Contract "rights" are granted by States UCCs.
And no, I don't have any more.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
It has never been about being equal, it has always been about being above the rest of us, and squashing religious liberties. The leftist radicals push this agenda Plain and simple, whether they are gay or not.
For the not so radical gays, it is about making themselves feel a bit more "normal", plain and simple.
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people. ~Theodore Roosevelt~
No my friend, my concerns do not overwhelm me but they damn sure inspire me and fire me up..
However never doubt this, when push comes to shove , in the past I always shoved back hard enough to solve the problem. Not even government gets to force me to yield because of its might and power.
I mean it when I type ffkk them too.
I don't play...
We all got to die someday, I believe I will just go out with my integrity intact..
If that means years earlier than what would have happened then so be it...
I draw the line at messing with my family , my religion or my Constitutionally insured freedoms. How about you?
I was taught to always be prepared... And I am.... --Tyr
18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
Uh NO.
there are no rights "given by man".
Man can recognize rights but not give rights.
man can protect rights
but sadly often man takes rights away.... or assume they can give them to others which is the same thing really.
FJ if you make biz deal you may AGREE to an arbitrator for ALL disputes, COMPLETELY without ANY gov't.
the gov't does not privilege you to create a contract. period.
you can make one and be subject to U.S. law if you like. but if not you don't have to.
look the CLEAR thing is human relations and agreements, are a God given human right.
the Constitution tells the gov't WHAT authority it has, not what rights the people have FJ.
that's the basic understanding to the constitution and freedom.
But in one sense your right, the Constitution should not and does not mention marriage.
and as the 9th and 10th amendment mention
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Last edited by revelarts; 10-20-2014 at 11:56 PM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16
All are engaging in a business they normally would engage in
Chic-fil-a sells sandwiches --- just not on Sundays
Roman Catholic Pharmacist sell drugs --- just not THAT drug.
Muslim Bookstore owners sell books and DVDs --- just not THOSE books and DVDs
Jewish Deli owners sells meats --- just not THAT kinda meat.
Wedding chapel owner does weddings --- just not THAT kinda wedding.
Each is concerned with a certain type or specific detail laid out in their faith.
What is your distinction again?
Last edited by revelarts; 10-21-2014 at 12:03 AM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Only one business chooses to not serve a customer that comes knocking.
No one can get a Chik-fil-a on Sunday.
No one can get THAT drug.
No one can get THOSE books and DVDs.
No one can get THAT kinda meat.
Only one type of customer can't have that wedding.
And like I said before I think it's bad legislation.
You can have one if you like I suppose. It's just a"marriage"err, union between two individuals.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
I might have to give a nod to Gunny but I think it boils down to a semantic argument. Natural Rights are God given, anything listed in the Constitution is granted by man. God doesn't give you the right to bear arms.
But I'm not sure what to make of the rest of the post. Legislation determines who can engage in a contract and the courts resolve disputes when arbitration is not a factor. Anyway, don't get me wrong, if the Feds hadn't stepped in it 1000+ times with marriage in the Federal Register then it's possible that we're not having this discussion. Equal Protection says that if there is going to be a law then it needs to be equal on all. You can't cherry pick 9A and 10A and think it resolves the issue... it doesn't, 14A is key here.
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho
No one can get a Chik-fil-a on Sunday.
No one can get THAT drug.
No one can get THOSE books and DVDs.
No one can get THAT kinda meat.
NO ONE can get THAT type of Marriage... or several other kinds.
only one type of Marriage service provided.
If a homosexual man and woman wanted to marry well then the chapel would be HAPPY to oblige i'm sure. That's what they do, marry 1 man to 1 women in HOLY matrimony. That's all they do in the marriage dept..
Just as Kosher deli only sells Kosher Foods.
If you want Pork you simply go somewhere else. If you want to Browse and sit with others as they eat or marry fine. But the services are limited.
Can a Christian Couple DEMAND that a Satanist preform a Christian Wedding at a Satanist Chapel?
Or Vis-a-versa?
It's crazy to claim that one be forced to by law, it's a clear violation of religious freedoms.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16
"when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
"You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
“Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho