Hey men

[CSM]

The point is that the culture regarding being “tough” is to a point where some people (like those in the tweet) don’t even want to portray a character that might not be as tough as those around them.

Somewhere amid all the fakery is a very real insight into the mentality of ‘not being seen to be a wimp’

Oh I get it.... being "masculine" in this day and age is a bad thing. Having any bit of "toughness" is a bad thing. Being white male is even worse.

Tough times gives us tough men. Tough men bring us better times. Better times gives us softer men. Softer men bring us tough times. Funny how that works.

[Noir]

Oh I get it.... being "masculine" in this day and age is a bad thing. Having any bit of "toughness" is a bad thing. Being white male is even worse.

Tough times gives us tough men. Tough men bring us better times. Better times gives us softer men. Softer men bring us tough times. Funny how that works.

You must be the fourth person in as many weeks I have heard say ‘tough times tough men means soft times soft men...etc’ idk what the credit is to that soundbite but it has clearly been very successful in spreading.

As as per your first point, not everything that is masculine is bad, but look at some of the replies in this thread, the negatives are right on show in post after post.

[CSM]

You must be the fourth person in as many weeks I have heard say ‘tough times tough men means soft times soft men...etc’ idk what the credit is to that soundbite but it has clearly been very successful in spreading.

As as per your first point, not everything that is masculine is bad, but look at some of the replies in this thread, the negatives are right on show in post after post.

The "negatives" indicate (at least to me) that some do not agree with your opinion. As to the soundbite, I heard that long, long ago so it's not new.

[STTAB]

You must be the fourth person in as many weeks I have heard say ‘tough times tough men means soft times soft men...etc’ idk what the credit is to that soundbite but it has clearly been very successful in spreading.

As as per your first point, not everything that is masculine is bad, but look at some of the replies in this thread, the negatives are right on show in post after post.

Because generally speaking that saying is true.

Compare 18 year olds from 1941 to 18 year old today.

There's not doubt that today's 18 year olds are pussies compared to their grandfathers.

[Noir]

The "negatives" indicate (at least to me) that some do not agree with your opinion. As to the soundbite, I heard that long, long ago so it's not new.

Because generally speaking that saying is true.

Compare 18 year olds from 1941 to 18 year old today.

There's not doubt that today's 18 year olds are pussies compared to their grandfathers.

Fair enough - seem just to be happenstance that I’ve heard it almost word for word several times in the last few weeks.

[Kathianne]

I'm for men acting like men, not acting like hormone raging adolescents and most are like the former. No one thinks that breaking into fights or getting in people's faces for the slightest perceived disrespect is ok. I've never been attracted to the type of man that tells me what I should like or what I should do. (Yeah, I know. I. hide. that. well.)

However, there are many things that make men and women different, I enjoy those differences. At 5'1" many things are out of my reach. LOL! With few exceptions, even 'short' men are 5'5" and that helps! Upper body strength is something most women lack compared to most men. Surprising how often that difference comes into play during times of danger. Think of major flooding and the men that are able to carry women and children and exhausted men through raging waters. Those that are able to pull someone into a boat or even push them into a boat when they, themselves are in the water. Yes, women would do so too, if they are able. Most are not.

What pisses me off about the whole 'toxic masculinity' or 'getting in touch with the feminine side' is that it's telling men, even more importantly boys, that they are naturally bad. They are not. Yes, we've left the hunting and gathering stage, most of the time; yet, it is wrong to tell men or boys to 'sit still' like women/girls, every bit as much as it has been wrong to tell women that they are anti-feminist if they choose to stay home or care more for their family than career.

Some examples of why 'masculinity' is not something to denigrate:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/good-...AEQGV3?ocid=sf

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...IVE-MILES.html

https://www.wbir.com/article/news/he...b-db4c79828829

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/08/us/un...rnd/index.html

Just from the last couple of weeks.

[Abbey Marie]

This thread took a bit of a turn, as threads will do. But last night the original point of the thread came roaring back to life.

We have a raccoon that visits our very unfinished attic/crawl space. Before we exactly knew what was up there, our exterminator set large spring traps, to catch squirrels I think.

Up the ladder goes Russ to bring down a suitcase for our upcoming vacation. I can hear the ladder and the trap door open.

A minute later he comes in the bedroom to use the master bath sink. Quietly. Calmly.

Our daughter comes in and nervously asks if he is ok. I say, “He’s fine, why?”.
She answers, “One of the traps snapped on his finger”.



This is exactly what I was asking about. No other men around. No small children. No enemies. No need to set an example, or hide any “weakness”. Just his wife and daughter. Yet, you wouldn’t even know he was hurt. I appreciate all of your answers, but I still am not hearing why men feel the need to be so stoic when there seems to be no need to. Right or wrong, the closest to an answer I saw was Noir’s answer, whose argument I think basically boiled down to societal/peer pressure, with a touch of anti-machismo. I think it goes deeper than that, but it’s just a guess.

I do agree with Kathianne- I like you guys pretty much the way you are (less crudeness might be nice) and I am definitely not criticizing. But that was is not the original point. It is just my nature to try to understand why people act the way they do. I find it fascinating.

[STTAB]

I'm for men acting like men, not acting like hormone raging adolescents and most are like the former. No one thinks that breaking into fights or getting in people's faces for the slightest perceived disrespect is ok. I've never been attracted to the type of man that tells me what I should like or what I should do. (Yeah, I know. I. hide. that. well.)

However, there are many things that make men and women different, I enjoy those differences. At 5'1" many things are out of my reach. LOL! With few exceptions, even 'short' men are 5'5" and that helps! Upper body strength is something most women lack compared to most men. Surprising how often that difference comes into play during times of danger. Think of major flooding and the men that are able to carry women and children and exhausted men through raging waters. Those that are able to pull someone into a boat or even push them into a boat when they, themselves are in the water. Yes, women would do so too, if they are able. Most are not.

What pisses me off about the whole 'toxic masculinity' or 'getting in touch with the feminine side' is that it's telling men, even more importantly boys, that they are naturally bad. They are not. Yes, we've left the hunting and gathering stage, most of the time; yet, it is wrong to tell men or boys to 'sit still' like women/girls, every bit as much as it has been wrong to tell women that they are anti-feminist if they choose to stay home or care more for their family than career.

Some examples of why 'masculinity' is not something to denigrate:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/good-...AEQGV3?ocid=sf

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...IVE-MILES.html

https://www.wbir.com/article/news/he...b-db4c79828829

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/08/us/un...rnd/index.html

Just from the last couple of weeks.

My wife and I met because I stepped in when her at the time boyfriend was beating on her in public. If I hadn't been "masculine" well A) who knows what that guy would have done to her and B) I wouldn't have met the most perfect woman in existence

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm for men acting like men, not acting like hormone raging adolescents and most are like the former. No one thinks that breaking into fights or getting in people's faces for the slightest perceived disrespect is ok. I've never been attracted to the type of man that tells me what I should like or what I should do. (Yeah, I know. I. hide. that. well.)

-------------------

[Kathianne]

-------------------

I know. I do enjoy that.

[icansayit]

Speaking for my own era and age. One of the first things we learned as boys, then young men from our Fathers, Teachers, and Ministers was that we always pay the Most Respect to All Women, Girls, Ladies, and girlfriends in school, or down the block.

Then we learned...it was Our Primary job in life to Protect all of the Women, Girls, Ladies, Girlfriends, Mothers, Sisters, Aunts and anyone else...NO MATTER what they were.

Personally. I still feel that way and continue to practice those lessons, as I always try to do here on DP to all of the Ladies.

On the other hand. I draw a line and lose my Machoness (whatever I have left) when I hear any member of the FEMALE gender using GARBAGE, TRASH, STREET, UNLADY LIKE language because I instantly LOSE any respect for anyone willing to demonstrate how LOW their mentality, and self-respect really is.
How's that?

[Gunny]

Speaking for my own era and age. One of the first things we learned as boys, then young men from our Fathers, Teachers, and Ministers was that we always pay the Most Respect to All Women, Girls, Ladies, and girlfriends in school, or down the block.

Then we learned...it was Our Primary job in life to Protect all of the Women, Girls, Ladies, Girlfriends, Mothers, Sisters, Aunts and anyone else...NO MATTER what they were.

Personally. I still feel that way and continue to practice those lessons, as I always try to do here on DP to all of the Ladies.

On the other hand. I draw a line and lose my Machoness (whatever I have left) when I hear any member of the FEMALE gender using GARBAGE, TRASH, STREET, UNLADY LIKE language because I instantly LOSE any respect for anyone willing to demonstrate how LOW their mentality, and self-respect really is.
How's that?

I agree. Was taught the same.