"We support the troops but not the mission"

[manu1959]

Those were not op-eds, rather, news articles with sources at the end.

No, Saddam did not pay any bomber's families, but hey, feel free to ignore the facts if you wish!!

http://www.mideastnews.com/sucidereward.htm

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ombers&spell=1

[Rahul]

http://www.mideastnews.com/sucidereward.htm

Anyone can put a web site up and state their opinion, but that doesn't make them right. I could say the sun rose in the West, but it wouldn't make me right.

Where are your references?

[OCA]

Anyone can put a web site up and state their opinion, but that doesn't make them right. I could say the sun rose in the West, but it wouldn't make me right.

Where are your references?

Absolutely unbelievable! He asks for links, links are provided then he disses provided links.

Why anybody debates this dothead still I have no clue.

[Gunny]

Absolutely unbelievable! He asks for links, links are provided then he disses provided links.

Why anybody debates this dothead still I have no clue.

His transparent, 1st grade level dishonest arguments are pretty-much played out.

[Gaffer]

Anyone can put a web site up and state their opinion, but that doesn't make them right. I could say the sun rose in the West, but it wouldn't make me right.

Where are your references?

It applies to you too. It can apply to the regular media as well. They can make up stories and we really have no way of verifying them.

You haven't been right throughout this whole post. A lot of boneheaded statements backed up by op-eds and opinions.

[Rahul]

It applies to you too. It can apply to the regular media as well. They can make up stories and we really have no way of verifying them.

First off, one of the links was a Google search thread which I did not look at. I much prefer to look at links with a snippet provided, otherwise, trying to find the relevant site amidst a bunch of others is like playing "Find Waldo".

Second, who is Adel Darwish? Why should I believe him over a media source?

My sources were at least sources from the media. This one is not a "media" source at all.

[JohnDoe]

So show me the proof that he didn't pay hamas bombers families. His own foreign minister announced it to the world in the 90's. They made a big deal about it.

Those are the facts.

What a convoluted way of thinking.

If Saddam paid Hamas suicide bomber families money to support them, then there must be PROOF of such.

If he did not pay them, there would be NO proof to provide.

And one man's comments against another man's, do not in any way suffice, not without tangiable evidence also.

[Kathianne]

What a convoluted way of thinking.

If Saddam paid Hamas suicide bomber families money to support them, then there must be PROOF of such.

If he did not pay them, there would be NO proof to provide.

And one man's comments against another man's, do not in any way suffice, not without tangiable evidence also.

This seems like what you are asking for?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in505316.shtml

Salaries For Suicide Bombers
WASHINGTON, April 3, 2002(CBS) Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has raised the amount offered to relatives of suicide bombers from $10,000 per family to $25,000, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Wednesday.

Since Iraq upped its payments last month, 12 suicide bombers have successfully struck inside Israel, including one man who killed 25 Israelis, many of them elderly, as they sat down to a meal at a hotel to celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover. The families of three suicide bombers said they have recently received payments of $25,000.

Palestinians say the bombers are driven by a priceless thirst for revenge, religious zeal and dreams of glory — not greed.

Mahmoud Safi, leader of a pro-Iraqi Palestinian group, the Arab Liberation Front, acknowledged that the support payments for relatives make it easier for some potential bombers to make up their minds. "Some people stop me on the street, saying if you increase the payment to $50,000 I'll do it immediately," Safi said. He also suggested such remarks were made mostly in jest.

Saddam has said the Palestinians need weapons and money instead of peace proposals and has provided payments throughout a year and a half of Israeli-Palestinian battles. "I saw on Iraqi TV President Saddam saying he will continue supporting the (uprising) even if it means selling his own clothes," said Safi.

Rumsfeld, who said earlier this week that Saddam and the Iraqi government were offering the lower amount, elaborated on the issue at a Pentagon briefing.

"It turns out that he has raised that amount and it's $25,000 per family, not $10,000 per family," Rumsfeld said.

"Here is an individual who is the head of a country, Iraq, who has proudly, publicly made a decision to go out and actively promote and finance human sacrifice for families that will have their youngsters kill innocent men, women and children," Rumsfeld said.

Though he did not say so, he appeared to refer to the current wave of suicide bombings on Israeli civilian targets.

"I am simply trying to let the people of Iraq understand what their leadership is doing, to let the people of the Middle East and the rest of the world ... know what is in fact being done to arm young people and send them out to blow up restaurants and shopping malls and pizza parlors," he said.

Rumsfeld blasted Iraq, Iran and Syria on Monday for inflaming violence in the Middle East, and said he raised the issue of Iraq on Wednesday to suggest it was important to "recognize that there is an infrastructure to terrorism."

Rumsfeld said Saddam had stated publicly the payment for families "if they're able to persuade a family to have their teen-ager strap explosives on them and go out and kill themselves and kill innocent men, women and children."

"He is pleased with his idea and is promoting it in the region," Rumsfeld said of Saddam. "It is a matter of public record."

Under the new Iraqi payscale, decided on March 12 during an Arab conference in Baghdad, the families of gunmen and others who die fighting the Israelis will still receive $10,000, while the relatives of suicide bombers will get $25,000.

Safi and two others from the Arab Liberation Front visit families in the northern West Bank and make the payments. "We go to every family and give them a check," he said. "We tell them that this is a gift from President Saddam and Iraq."

But Saddam is not the only one giving money. Charities from Saudi Arabia and Qatar — both U.S. allies — pay money to families of Palestinians killed in the fighting, including suicide bombers.

[Abbey Marie]

Awesome find, Kathianne.

[Gaffer]

What a convoluted way of thinking.

If Saddam paid Hamas suicide bomber families money to support them, then there must be PROOF of such.

If he did not pay them, there would be NO proof to provide.

And one man's comments against another man's, do not in any way suffice, not without tangiable evidence also.

Like I said, show me the proof that he DIDN'T pay suicide bombers. There's nothing convoluted about that.

[gabosaurus]

The fact that Saddam paid suicide bombers does not equate to his support of outside terrorist forces. It equates with his hatred of Israel.
Find me a certified link where Saddam is supporting bin Laden or AQ.

[JohnDoe]

Like I said, show me the proof that he DIDN'T pay suicide bombers. There's nothing convoluted about that.

And like I have SAID, you can ONLY show proof that he did pay them, if he paid them, there would be some sort of paper trail or money trail..

YOu will not ever be able to show proof that he did not pay the families of suicide bombers, if he did not pay them.

Regardless Gaffer, what is your contention or even Gunny's contention regarding saddam and the families of these Palestinian suicide bombers and this kind of terrorism?

I have already agreed that it is MORE THAN LIKELY the accusation of him paying suicide bomber's families in the past was true?

What does this have to do with going in to a full fledge invaision and occupation of the country? We did not invade Palestine for providing the suicide bombers to kill Israelis, so why invade Saddam for him supposedly supplying charity to the families left behind of these Palestinian suiciders?

In the 80's and 90's before the Gulf War, I personally believe from all that I have reaD, that Saddam had various connections with different terrorist groups outside his country....Not Al Qaeda, but others.

I simply do not believe this was one of the reasons we invaded him and his country in 2003, a decade later.

[Kathianne]

And like I have SAID, you can ONLY show proof that he did pay them, if he paid them, there would be some sort of paper trail or money trail..

YOu will not ever be able to show proof that he did not pay the families of suicide bombers, if he did not pay them.

Regardless Gaffer, what is your contention or even Gunny's contention regarding saddam and the families of these Palestinian suicide bombers and this kind of terrorism?

I have already agreed that it is MORE THAN LIKELY the accusation of him paying suicide bomber's families in the past was true?

What does this have to do with going in to a full fledge invaision and occupation of the country? We did not invade Palestine for providing the suicide bombers to kill Israelis, so why invade Saddam for him supposedly supplying charity to the families left behind of these Palestinian suiciders?

In the 80's and 90's before the Gulf War, I personally believe from all that I have reaD, that Saddam had various connections with different terrorist groups outside his country....Not Al Qaeda, but others.

I simply do not believe this was one of the reasons we invaded him and his country in 2003, a decade later.

Ok, so you must have read this, posted above:

...Saddam has said the Palestinians need weapons and money instead of peace proposals and has provided payments throughout a year and a half of Israeli-Palestinian battles. "I saw on Iraqi TV President Saddam saying he will continue supporting the (uprising) even if it means selling his own clothes," said Safi.

Rumsfeld, who said earlier this week that Saddam and the Iraqi government were offering the lower amount, elaborated on the issue at a Pentagon briefing.

"It turns out that he has raised that amount and it's $25,000 per family, not $10,000 per family," Rumsfeld said.

"Here is an individual who is the head of a country, Iraq, who has proudly, publicly made a decision to go out and actively promote and finance human sacrifice for families that will have their youngsters kill innocent men, women and children," Rumsfeld said.

Though he did not say so, he appeared to refer to the current wave of suicide bombings on Israeli civilian targets.

"I am simply trying to let the people of Iraq understand what their leadership is doing, to let the people of the Middle East and the rest of the world ... know what is in fact being done to arm young people and send them out to blow up restaurants and shopping malls and pizza parlors," he said.

Rumsfeld blasted Iraq, Iran and Syria on Monday for inflaming violence in the Middle East, and said he raised the issue of Iraq on Wednesday to suggest it was important to "recognize that there is an infrastructure to terrorism."

Rumsfeld said Saddam had stated publicly the payment for families "if they're able to persuade a family to have their teen-ager strap explosives on them and go out and kill themselves and kill innocent men, women and children."

"He is pleased with his idea and is promoting it in the region," Rumsfeld said of Saddam. "It is a matter of public record."

Under the new Iraqi payscale, decided on March 12 during an Arab conference in Baghdad, the families of gunmen and others who die fighting the Israelis will still receive $10,000, while the relatives of suicide bombers will get $25,000...

then bring the new element up, see bolded above.

[Gaffer]

There were many other examples of his dealings with terrorist organizations. You can read back through other posts in this thread. He was not submitting to the un resolutions, or the sanctions. He had kicked all the inspectors out. He continually fired at US and British aircraft patrolling the no fly zones. He ignored all the cease fire agreements from the first war. Then there was the WMD which the WHOLE WORLD thought he had. And then there were the torture chambers and mass graves that showed what he did in his spare time.

As it turned out he was even worst than originally thought inspite of the lack of WMD's. They are still going through the tons of paper work captured when baghdad fell.

If you think he didn't pay homicide bombers then its up to you to prove it. His foreign minister bragged about it.

[Gunny]

The fact that Saddam paid suicide bombers does not equate to his support of outside terrorist forces. It equates with his hatred of Israel.
Find me a certified link where Saddam is supporting bin Laden or AQ.

Why? No one has stated Saddam was supporting bin Laden or AQ. Just some jackass saying it was said by the administration.

YOU provide the proof to back the allegation. I'm certainly not going to look for proof for an allegation I have not made.