Nugent on Hillary and Obama

[truthmatters]

From your source, coming back to bite you in the ass once again.

And did you note what part of the snopes articel that refered to?

It said that about the unfounded swift boaters remarks and said there wad no way to find any of it true because it was nothing more than oppinion.

[glockmail]

You chose to call all the men Kerry served with(except one )liars for political reasons?

Perhaps you could point out where I made that accusation. My prediction: another direct challenge from me to you will go unanswered.

Of course, Kerry can clear all this up by releasing his medical records to the public. He had the chance to do so in the 2004 election. Since he lost by a few thousand votes it would have made up the difference easily. What possible reason would he have for not disclosing this? It cost him the presidency, a goal he's had for decades He had every incentive to set the record straight and chose not to do so.

In contrast Bush released all his records after he won the election, and had nothing to gain.

[glockmail]

And did you note what part of the snopes articel that refered to?

It said that about the unfounded swift boaters remarks and said there wad no way to find any of it true because it was nothing more than oppinion.

Exactly. There are two sides of the story, which is why we use facts in evidence to make a decision on which side is right. Kerry choses to hide evidence that could clear this all up, so any reasonable person would judge that such evidence does not support his claim.

[truthmatters]

Perhaps you could point out where I made that accusation. My prediction: another direct challenge from me to you will go unanswered.

Of course, Kerry can clear all this up by releasing his medical records to the public. He had the chance to do so in the 2004 election. Since he lost by a few thousand votes it would have made up the difference easily. What possible reason would he have for not disclosing this? It cost him the presidency, a goal he's had for decades He had every incentive to set the record straight and chose not to do so.

In contrast Bush released all his records after he won the election, and had nothing to gain.

Well what these SV claim as what Kerry did is in direct opposition to all the guys that Kerry served with (except one) so either the one guy is lying or all the other guys Kerry served with , his superior officers, the military record are all lying.

I choose to believe the record ,his men who were there and the superiors who put him in for the medals instead of one guy.

[glockmail]

Well what these SV claim as what Kerry did is in direct opposition to all the guys that Kerry served with (except one) so either the one guy is lying or all the other guys Kerry served with , his superior officers, the military record are all lying.

I choose to believe the record ,his men who were there and the superiors who put him in for the medals instead of one guy.

I see my cahllenge went unanswered as predicted. You also choose to ignore the fact thet Kerry can clear this up very easily.

[truthmatters]

http://tinyurl.com/7xpe8


this is a PDF release of a puplic statement by Mr Gardners former employer.

In it they defend themnselves from a claim he made that they fired him for speaking out about Kerry.

They laid him off with other workers at the very same time ad he went on Fox TV and asked for people to send him money.

He never sued for wrongful firing.

You see it is very likely the man is a liar and the other soldiers are telling the truth.

Ask yourself why you choose to belive him instead of the Military record , all the other men Kerry served with him and the officers who recomended him for medals?

Oh and BTW I did answer your question about his medical records and it is because you dont need his medical records all you need is all the other records(like the combat records) which prove Kerry desreved his medals.

Why do you want to snoop into his colonoscopy anyway?

[Gaffer]

kerry is not a returning vet. He's been back for almost 40 years. He used three months of combat service to get himself elected to the senate and tried to use it for the presidency. By releasing the medical records it would show that he did not earn three purple hearts. He used that to get the hell out of Vietnam as fast as he could then played up the hero image.

He blew up a sandpan and shot a kid in the back who had fired an M-79 round at his boat, as the kid was running away. As an officer and boat commander he was able to get medals for valor that he didn't deserve. That happened a lot in the officer ranks. Medals were important for promotion.

He met with North Vietnamese officials in paris and told bold faced lies to a congressional committee. He's scum.

[glockmail]

http://tinyurl.com/7xpe8


this is a PDF release of a puplic statement by Mr Gardners former employer.

In it they defend themnselves from a claim he made that they fired him for speaking out about Kerry.

They laid him off with other workers at the very same time ad he went on Fox TV and asked for people to send him money.

He never sued for wrongful firing.

You see it is very likely the man is a liar and the other soldiers are telling the truth.

Ask yourself why you choose to belive him instead of the Military record , all the other men Kerry served with him and the officers who recomended him for medals?

Oh and BTW I did answer your question about his medical records and it is because you dont need his medical records all you need is all the other records(like the combat records) which prove Kerry desreved his medals.

Why do you want to snoop into his colonoscopy anyway?

His records wouldn't have a colon test unless he had a problem down there, a rarety among young men and as such would likely have gotten him dischraged due to medical reasons.

Again, all he has to so is release all his records to the public, just like Bush did. They will either confirm or deny the combat records.

[Gaffer]

There were 300 men in the swift boat unit kerry was assigned too. A half dozen stood by kerry. The rest all said he was lying.

[glockmail]

TM claims it was just one.

[Gaffer]

TM claims it was just one.

TM needs to do more research.

[darin]

TM is naive. Probably VERY VERY Young.

[truthmatters]

Its not my claim its the facts and snopes gives lots of quotes from the guys who actually served wtih him.
Gardner was the ONLY one who talked shit about him but Gardner also lied on TV to get people to send him money too.




http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

here is snopes on the matter and it will tell you that only one of the men who served with Kerry talked dirt on him.

ALL of the ohters who actually served with him supported his bid for presidency and backed the military record which was released.

Its a sad time when a returning vet has to have his brave service destroyed for political reasons.



Origins: John Kerry's service in Vietnam as an officer in command of a Swift boat and his subsequent activities as an anti-war protester have engendered a good deal of controversy, especially among those who also served in Vietnam. Many Vietnam veterans were angered by Kerry's anti-war stance after he returned to the U.S., viewing his anti-war activities — particularly his testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971 — as unfairly and undeservedly smearing the reputations of all who served in Vietnam.

That said, the piece quoted above, in which a variety of veterans offer their views of John Kerry, isn't really something that can evaluated as "true" or "false." It's true that the men named do exist, that they served in Vietnam, and that they made the statements attributed to them, but the substance of most of these quotes is an expression of opinion, not something objectively classifiable as right or wrong.

The important point to note here is that this piece presents only one side of the story:


Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:

"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3

— Fred Short

"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.

I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3

— David Alston

"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2

— James Wasser
Many of Kerry's Vietnam commanders and fellow officers also continue to speak positively of him:

Navy records, fitness reports by Kerry's commanders and scores of interviews with Swift boat officers and crewmen depict a model officer who fought aggressively in river ambushes and won the respect of many of his crewmates and commanders, even as his doubts about the war grew.

"I don't like what he said after the war," said Adrian Lonsdale, who commanded Kerry for three months in 1969. "But he was a good naval officer."2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer . . . "He played by the same rules we all did."1
How well all of these men knew John Kerry is questionable, and discrepancies between how some of them described Kerry thirty-five years ago and how they describe him today suggest that their opinions are largely based upon political differences rather than objective assessments of Kerry's military record. For example, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman is quoted above, yet the Los Angeles Times reported:

. . . Hoffman and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffman praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes.1

[Gaffer]

You made that post already. what is the purpose of repeating it?

[truthmatters]

You made that post already. what is the purpose of repeating it?

I thought you missed it from the ohter page so I brought it to where you could see it.