Coulter demands Jews be "perfected"

[avatar4321]

I suppose if you think "forced conversions" are a good thing then they would have been good. I was speaking about souls not the good things you mentioned here.

Yes, I believe it was good to stop Islamic aggression. I think it is pretty evident that if Islam was allowed to flourish in Europe that the world would be as backwards as the Middle East is today, but my point is in reference to souls. You cannot forcefully convert a soul. Beating Osama bin Ladin over the head with a baseball bat is not going to make him a Christian. But those temporal benefits aside how was the glory of Christ spread during the Crusades?

As far as I can tell from the history I have read, the Crusades were little more than a war of greed and land grabbing.

I hope that makes sense.

You say that the Crusades were a good thing. I'm willing to listen to why you think this. Was it because of what you mentioned? Was there something spiritual won here? I would never claim that good did not come out of it, but spiritually speaking?

Honestly, I had not thought about it a lot. Then I began to think as a Christian what good came out of the Crusades for the Body of Christ? Were souls snatched out of the devils clutches? Was Christ proclaimed to the lost?

Immie

the crusades werent force conversion. ive already mentioned why they were good. you obviously didnt listen.

[typomaniac]

There's nothing to debate. Your reply was silly. If that's how you really feel - if your faith is so weak it cannot stand when confronted...I mean...there's nothing anybody can say. It's crazy to think how you think.

It would be, if you think that religious freedom applies only to your religion.

The trouble with a lot of people is that they think "sharing" their faith means that it's God's will to try to force it on the heathens.

[darin]

It would be, if you think that religious freedom applies only to your religion.

The trouble with a lot of people is that they think "sharing" their faith means that it's God's will to try to force it on the heathens.

you're proving my point. Religious freedom should be applied to all. Nobody can 'force God' on ANYBODY, and Christians don't even try.

It's God's will that none should be dead. Of course, the dead seem to enjoy their separation from God for various reasons. It's the job of ANY Christian - no...it's the HONOR to share God's way out for us, to those who are dead.

[typomaniac]

you're proving my point. Religious freedom should be applied to all. Nobody can 'force God' on ANYBODY, and Christians don't even try.

What about the Mormons who ring your doorbell? And doesn't your church have "outreach" people who visit those that have just moved into the neighborhood, trying to get them to show up at church next Sunday?

It's God's will that none should be dead. Of course, the dead seem to enjoy their separation from God for various reasons. It's the job of ANY Christian - no...it's the HONOR to share God's way out for us, to those who are dead.

You talk to people in their graves?

[Immanuel]

the crusades werent force conversion. ive already mentioned why they were good. you obviously didnt listen.

I did listen and I saw what you said and I agreed with it. Perhaps you did not read what I said?

Why do you say they were not forced conversions? The stories I have heard were that the crusaders went in basically demanding that everyone become Christian or die just like what happened during the Inquisition. That seems forced to me.

I may be wrong here, but that is how I have always seen the crusades.

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/crusades.stm

calling on Christian princes in Europe to go on a crusade to rescue the Holy Land from the Turks. In the speech given at the Council of Clermont in France, on November 27, 1095, he combined the ideas of making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land with that of waging a holy war against infidels.

**Using Robin, the Boy Wonder's voice**
Holy Jihad Batman! Holy war against infidels sound familiar?

Now back to the link...

"The West must march to the defense of the East. All should go, rich and poor alike. The Franks must stop their internal wars and squabbles. Let them go instead against the infidel and fight a righteous war.

"God himself will lead them, for they will be doing His work. There will be absolution and remission of sins for all who die in the service of Christ. Here they are poor and miserable sinners; there they will be rich and happy. Let none hesitate; they must march next summer. God wills it!

"Deus vult! (God wills it) became the battle cry of the Crusader.


The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view. Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:


Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins."

Viewed in the light of their original purpose, the Crusades were failures. They made no permanent conquests of the Holy Land. They did not retard the advance of Islam. Far from aiding the Eastern Empire, they hastened its disintegration. They also revealed the continuing inability of Latin Christians to understand Greek Christians, and they hardened the schism between them. They fostered a harsh intolerance between Muslims and Christians, where before there had been a measure of mutual respect. They were marked, and marred, by a recrudescence of anti-Semitism....

Another interesting Source:

http://historymedren.about.com/od/fi...darklegacy.htm

How centuries of war began with one man's ambition

At the Council of Clermont in November of 1095, Urban made a speech that literally changed the course of history. In it, he stated that the Turks had not only invaded Christian lands but had visited unspeakable atrocities on Christians (of which, according to Robert the Monk's account, he spoke in great detail). This was a great exaggeration, but it was just the beginning.

One might argue that those who have studied the teachings of Jesus Christ would be shocked at the suggestion of killing anyone in Christ's name. But it is important to remember that the only people who were generally able to study scripture were priests and members of cloistered religious orders. Few knights and fewer peasants could read at all, and those who could rarely if ever had access to a copy of the gospel. A man's priest was his connection to God; the Pope was sure to know God's wishes better than anyone. Who were they to argue with such an important man of religion?

This is The Crusades I speak against. A holy war! God forbid we should ever again be like the muslims and preach a holy war.

Immie

[darin]

What about the Mormons who ring your doorbell? And doesn't your church have "outreach" people who visit those that have just moved into the neighborhood, trying to get them to show up at church next Sunday?

How is that forcing ANYTHING? It's pure insanity to think mormons at your door is them 'forcing' anything. Mormons are perhaps the BEST neighbors to have. And when the DO come to your door, every mormon I've met there says "Just checking to see if you need any help with anything around the house." Or "Hey, we attend this church - maybe you should visit?"

Look at what you wrote "Trying to get them to show up at Church...".

Now - TRYING to get people to church equates to FORCING a belief on somebody? How ridiculous or weak-willed are YOU? lmao

Look -a church is a SERVICE to a community.

You talk to people in their graves?

No. I speak to people who are Dead. They are physically alive, but spiritually dead.

[typomaniac]

How is that forcing ANYTHING? It's pure insanity to think mormons at your door is them 'forcing' anything. Mormons are perhaps the BEST neighbors to have. And when the DO come to your door, every mormon I've met there says "Just checking to see if you need any help with anything around the house." Or "Hey, we attend this church - maybe you should visit?"

Look at what you wrote "Trying to get them to show up at Church...".

Now - TRYING to get people to church equates to FORCING a belief on somebody? How ridiculous or weak-willed are YOU?

You're missing a major point.

In its long history, Judaism has never (ever) actively looked for new people to recruit. They have been open to those who would seek them out, but that's as far as it goes. IMO in a perfect world, every religion would behave like this. If different spiritual paths didn't work better - or worse - for different people, there would be only one religion. So, who better to choose your own spiritual path than you yourself? I might like my neighbors a lot, but I probably wouldn't let them choose my next car for me, let alone my religion.

[Dilloduck]

How is that forcing ANYTHING? It's pure insanity to think mormons at your door is them 'forcing' anything. Mormons are perhaps the BEST neighbors to have. And when the DO come to your door, every mormon I've met there says "Just checking to see if you need any help with anything around the house." Or "Hey, we attend this church - maybe you should visit?"

Look at what you wrote "Trying to get them to show up at Church...".

Now - TRYING to get people to church equates to FORCING a belief on somebody? How ridiculous or weak-willed are YOU? lmao

Look -a church is a SERVICE to a community.



No. I speak to people who are Dead. They are physically alive, but spiritually dead.

Therefore, if you “complain” about how much you are being tested, you are dead. You’re simply defending your pride, feeling sorry for yourself and demanding that the world notice your pain. But being a Christian involves recognizing your feelings of hurt and then resolving to speak about them charitably and calmly without demanding anything. If others listen to you, fine. Work with them to find a solution to the problem, as you have done by writing to me. And if they fail to hear you, well, pray for their repentance and let the dead bury the dead.

http://www.chastitysf.com/q_dead.htm

(Bold mine)

[darin]

Okay Dillo - care to explain any sort of point you're trying to make?

[avatar4321]

What about the Mormons who ring your doorbell? And doesn't your church have "outreach" people who visit those that have just moved into the neighborhood, trying to get them to show up at church next Sunday?



You talk to people in their graves?

i was unaware that people trying to talk to you was somehow forcing religion onto you. Im sorry your such an easily influenced person.

[avatar4321]

You're missing a major point.

In its long history, Judaism has never (ever) actively looked for new people to recruit. They have been open to those who would seek them out, but that's as far as it goes. IMO in a perfect world, every religion would behave like this. If different spiritual paths didn't work better - or worse - for different people, there would be only one religion. So, who better to choose your own spiritual path than you yourself? I might like my neighbors a lot, but I probably wouldn't let them choose my next car for me, let alone my religion.

im pretty sure God Sent Jonah to non-Israelites to proselyte. In fact, Jonah got annoyed because they actually repented.

There is a reason Judaism doesnt normally proselyte. Its because God wanted to teach them before they were sent out to bless the world. The Abrahamic Covenant requires the covenant people to go out and bless the world. But when Moses found them worshiping the idol the Lord gave them the Law of Moses to teach the children of Israel and point them to Christ so they would be prepared when the time to bless the world and share God's message with them. Those that were ready at the meridian of time became Christians.

[TheSage]

im pretty sure God Sent Jonah to non-Israelites to proselyte. In fact, Jonah got annoyed because they actually repented.

There is a reason Judaism doesnt normally proselyte. Its because God wanted to teach them before they were sent out to bless the world. The Abrahamic Covenant requires the covenant people to go out and bless the world. But when Moses found them worshiping the idol the Lord gave them the Law of Moses to teach the children of Israel and point them to Christ so they would be prepared when the time to bless the world and share God's message with them. Those that were ready at the meridian of time became Christians.

Plus, judaism is a elitist race cult. They don't want people to become jews, they want them to be noahides, who are subservient under jewish rule.

http://www.noahide.com/movement.htm

[TheSage]

"It is vitally important that as a movement we continue to grow. There certainly should be "publicity" and an aggressive outreach program to pull Christians out of their churches and bring them to G-d's Law. However, as a practical matter, we will grow exponentially through patient, uncompromising work in learning, teaching, building community programs—and also aggressive outreach.

Those who want more details about the universal Hasidic Gentile agenda can subscribe to our e-mail newsletter and continue to monitor this Web site. We will endeavor to keep you up-to-date with the latest developments."

http://www.noahide.com/unity.htm

[diuretic]

I like the way Jews do religion, it appeals to me.

[PostmodernProphet]

I like the way Jews do religion, it appeals to me

is it the burnt offerings?