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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    Sassy, can you give some more examples of how the schools are under-funded there? I really want to understand. I don’t doubt you. Arizona may be different. Where we live the county and the state and the feds throw all kinds of money at the schools, give them free laptops, free breakfast and lunch all year long, bus the inner city kids to the suburbs and vice versa, yet things don’t improve.
    I began to see that it isn’t a money problem. It’s either a “bad examples at home” problem, a “no father at home” problem, or both. IMO, there is no neighborhood so bad that having a family that values education and respects authority cannot overcome its influence.
    Or being a border state is a problem. Plus, high level of poverty.
    Arizona is one of eight states that does not increase funding to account for student poverty.


    This article is from last year so things might have changed but I still think we're last in the nation.

    https://edlawcenter.org/news/archives/other-states/how-to-improve-arizona%E2%80%99s-worst-in-the-nation-school-funding-system.html
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Then you have complaints without a solution. Arizona is probably not the only state with underfunded schools. College coaches are a national market and that's how much they earn. They, and others on the list, are governmental employees who run multi-million dollar organizations and can command high dollar pay packages. You can knock them down to whatever you believe to be not overpaid and Arizona will still have underfunded schools. You will also be limiting your talent pool to fill those positions.
    I'm OK with limiting talent pool. I think there are less athlete students and yet their programs get the majority of money....especially the coaches. Does AZ get payment for producing these athletes? Where is the ROI?

    We produce athletes that go on to make millions at the cost of those students who are not athletes. Mind you, one of my stepsons went to San Diego State on scholarship so I'm all for athletics.

    And, just because something "is" doesn't make it "right".
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Or being a border state is a problem. Plus, high level of poverty.

    This article is from last year so things might have changed but I still think we're last in the nation.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]https://edlawcenter.org/news/archives/other-states/how-to-improve-arizona%E2%80%99s-worst-in-the-nation-school-funding-system.html
    The link isn’t “live”
    After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box - Author unknown

    “Unfortunately, the truth is now whatever the media say it is”
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    I'm OK with limiting talent pool. I think there are less athlete students and yet their programs get the majority of money....especially the coaches. Does AZ get payment for producing these athletes? Where is the ROI?

    We produce athletes that go on to make millions at the cost of those students who are not athletes. Mind you, one of my stepsons went to San Diego State on scholarship so I'm all for athletics.

    And, just because something "is" doesn't make it "right".
    Ticket sales, boosters, TV revenues, licensed merchandise...

    Those are all arguable points but what is isn't necessarily wrong either and none of which will change Arizona's underfunded schools.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Ticket sales, boosters, TV revenues, licensed merchandise...

    Those are all arguable points but what is isn't necessarily wrong either and none of which will change Arizona's underfunded schools.
    It would if a portion of revenue produced went back to public schools instead of into coaches' pockets.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    The link isn’t “live”

    https://edlawcenter.org/research/arizona/
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
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    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    It would if a portion of revenue produced went back to public schools instead of into coaches' pockets.
    Knock Herm Edwards down to $1mm per year and take the resulting $2.5mm savings and divide by the 1mm (2012-2013 school year) students, ignore the resulting unintended consequences, and you'll get ~$2.50 per student. Add in a few more coaches and you'll soon be talking major dollars.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Knock Herm Edwards down to $1mm per year and take the resulting $2.5mm savings and divide by the 1mm (2012-2013 school year) students, ignore the resulting unintended consequences, and you'll get ~$2.50 per student. Add in a few more coaches and you'll soon be talking major dollars.
    Arizona in 2020 passed Prop 208 which would tax wealthy people an additional tax just for school funding. Currently lawsuit is in progress because AZ Constitution says voters cannot mandate tax. Has to be law enacted by State Legislature.

    Arizona Proposition 208, the Tax on Incomes Exceeding $250,000 for Teacher Salaries and Schools Initiative, was on the ballot in Arizona as an initiated state statute on November 3, 2020. Proposition 208 was approved.


    A "yes" vote supported this ballot initiative to:
    * enact a 3.50% income tax, in addition to the existing income tax (4.50% in 2020), on income above $250,000 (single filing) or $500,000 (joint filing) and
    * distribute the revenue from the 3.50% income tax to teacher and classroom support staff salaries, teacher mentoring and retention programs, career and technical education programs, and the Arizona Teachers Academy.
    A "no" vote opposed this ballot initiative, thus keeping the highest income tax rate at 4.50% (in 2020) on income above $159,000 (single filing) or $318,000 (joint filing).


    https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_208,_Tax_on_Incomes_Exceeding_ $250,000_for_Teacher_Salaries_and_Schools_Initiati ve_(2020)
    Last edited by SassyLady; 07-16-2021 at 12:17 PM.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
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  11. #24
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    ^Seems like that has a better chance at addressing any underfunding issues.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  12. #25
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    I think i could better-support increased taxes to fund schools WITH Performance audits as the law. Throwing money at something systemically racist (against whites), sexist (against males) feels like paying for more indoctrination.

    I suspect a better way is to abolish public schools, or reduce them by 50% (numerically/student count) and instead allow for charter schools so taxes could be used for generally better and more-focused results.
    “… the greatest detractor from high performance is fear: fear that you are not prepared, fear that you are in over your head, fear that you are not worthy, and ultimately, fear of failure. If you can eliminate that fear—not through arrogance or just wishing difficulties away, but through hard work and preparation—you will put yourself in an incredibly powerful position to take on the challenges you face" - Pete Carroll.

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