The US government did it

[Kathianne]

no no no, people really need to go read at least page 10 and 11 of operation northwoods... and I'm not saying it definitely happened, i'm just saying it's a definite possibility... if the operation was anything like northwoods it would have happened like this...

1. a replica empty aircraft of the actual passenger flight is created, and traded off for the real aircraft at some rendezvous point. and don't say that would be impossible to shut up the passengers, in a situation like that they could easily be confused to think they were part of some non-involved flight that was brought down for security reasons.

1b. all important people are told to evacuate targeted buildings including building 7(giuliani) because of drills and vacation and such Right and they all keep their mouths shut. and somehow they get Osama to take credit.

2. aircraft is flown into buildings with the skill of the best pilots on earth.(and we have the technology to do this by remote devices, so no suicide pilots needed)

3. buildings are torn down demolition style All those explosives brought into two towers and the Pentagon, no one sees a thing. Oh yeah, then explosives big enough to make that crater in PA.

4. tapes altered to show enemy involvement of the plans and other constructed evidence to show it was our enemy that did it Yep, wasn't good enough that Osama said they planned it. Told his followers to watch for the towers to come down.

5. victims and mock victims are mourned

6. we declare patriot day and unite against the damn terrorists

7. we pass the patriot act with no debate, which was drawn up long before 9/11 and would never have passed before hand, but after no resistance

8. we go to war with congress and the people behind us

seems plausible to me... and with documents showing the government willingly plans such catastrophic events with no remorse just shows me an open door, they could have easily done it if they wanted to, and they had all the reason in the world, why not?

For some reason, I have trouble following your thinking.

[chum43]

Why not just hand a bunch of crazy arabs the same plan ?

because they couldn't possibly have taken over an airplane with the weapons they had and actually flown it well enough to do what the government says they did.

[Kathianne]

because they couldn't possibly have taken over an airplane with the weapons they had and actually flown it well enough to do what the government says they did.

Yeah they could have. Much more plausible than your theory.

[Dilloduck]

because they couldn't possibly have taken over an airplane with the weapons they had and actually flown it well enough to do what the government says they did.

Oh really? ----who told you that?

[chum43]

For some reason, I have trouble following your thinking.

All the important people that were not present at the attacks either A. had an interest in it happening(giuliani, who's security headquarters inside building 7 were evacuated days before because of "drills"), or B. simply thought they got lucky, I'm talking important important, not your boss, like in on it important.

that area of the pentagon was closed off because of construction, and when was the last time you looked twice at construction going on in new york city, it's a constant thing, buildings are constantly being worked on and updated, it's not hard to believe that they could bring in explosives and set them up in places not normally seen by the everyday public. On top of that, there are people who have reported suspicious people doing suspicious things inside the buildings, the only problem with "witnesses" is that a lot of them were killed when the building came down, of the few that got out there are even fewer who saw things happening, or were holding off total shock enough to actually put two and two together.

oh and when was the last time you saw osama bin laden give a real interview, or talk publicly? oh right never, everything you've ever heard about or from osama is released by the US and is always video quality too crappy to invalidate the dubbed audio and is always subtitled from a language that maybe a few dozen people not in the military could actually translate. Right so we should take everything the US GOVERNMENT releases to us through mainstream media as undeniable FACT!? are you kidding me, take the osama tapes at face value. Not to mention he's CIA trained and equipped, he's owes us.

[chum43]

Oh really? ----who told you that?

it's this thing called common sense... have you ever met a pilot? I know quite a few and most of them former military... they wouldn't allow a guy with boxcutters to take over their plane... do you even know how a plane is flown, i've trained to become a pilot, one swift move with the controls and anyone not strapped in is dead... anything less than automatic assault weapons and there is no way in hell that plane gets taken over. boxcutters have at maximum a one inch blade, you are telling me that a guy at the controls of a jet airliner would allow a guy with a terrorist with a one inch blade to take over the controls without any resistance?

and I and many other people have talked to pilots and looked closely at what those planes did, no guys who barely passed flight school a month earlier are doing that... in fact someone who can barely land a single engine cessna would have a hard time keeping a commercial jet in the air at all... and according to a guy who personally tested the "hijackers" he was at best below average on a single engine tiny aircraft.

[Kathianne]

All the important people that were not present at the attacks either A. had an interest in it happening(giuliani, who's security headquarters inside building 7 were evacuated days before because of "drills"), or B. simply thought they got lucky, I'm talking important important, not your boss, like in on it important.

that area of the pentagon was closed off because of construction, and when was the last time you looked twice at construction going on in new york city, it's a constant thing, buildings are constantly being worked on and updated, it's not hard to believe that they could bring in explosives and set them up in places not normally seen by the everyday public. On top of that, there are people who have reported suspicious people doing suspicious things inside the buildings, the only problem with "witnesses" is that a lot of them were killed when the building came down, of the few that got out there are even fewer who saw things happening, or were holding off total shock enough to actually put two and two together.

oh and when was the last time you saw osama bin laden give a real interview, or talk publicly? oh right never, everything you've ever heard about or from osama is released by the US and is always video quality too crappy to invalidate the dubbed audio and is always subtitled from a language that maybe a few dozen people not in the military could actually translate. Right so we should take everything the US GOVERNMENT releases to us through mainstream media as undeniable FACT!? are you kidding me, take the osama tapes at face value. Not to mention he's CIA trained and equipped, he's owes us.

Okkaaayyyy:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

October 29, 2004, 5:10pm EDT
BIN LADEN ADMITS 9/11 RESPONSIBILITY, WARNS OF MORE ATTACKS

A tape aired by Al-Jazeera television Friday showed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden admitting for the first time that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and saying the United States could face more.
NewsHour Links

Online NewsHour Special Reports:
Domestic Security: The Homefront and the War on Terrorism


The Response to the Sept. 11 Attacks



It was the first footage of bin Laden to appear in more than a year and came just days before voters head to the polls Tuesday after an extremely tight president race.

In the 18-minute tape, bin Laden, who appeared to be sitting or standing at a table against a neutral background, said: "Despite entering the fourth year after Sept. 11, Bush is still deceiving you and hiding the truth from you and therefore the reasons are still there to repeat what happened."

Bin Laden said he thought of the method of attacking U.S. skyscrapers when he saw Israeli aircraft bombing tower blocks in Lebanon in 1982.

"We decided to destroy towers in America," he said. "God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind."

Although there was no way to authenticate the tape or say when it was made, it referenced the upcoming presidential election.

"Your security is not in the hands of (Democratic candidate John) Kerry or Bush or al-Qaida. Your security is in your own hands," bin Laden said, according to the Associated Press.

"To the U.S. people, my talk is to you about the best way to avoid another disaster. I tell you: Security is an important element of human life and free people do not give up their security.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. It is known that those who hate freedom do not have dignified souls, like those of the 19 blessed ones," he said, referring to the 19 hijackers.

"We fought you because we are free ... and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security, we undermine yours."

An editor at Al-Jazeera said the network received the tape Friday but did not say how, Reuters reported.

In September 2003, Al-Jazeera aired a tape of bin Laden with his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri in which he mentions five Sept. 11 hijackers by name.

An audiotape, which CIA analysts said was likely bin Laden, surfaced in April and called for a truce with European nations if they pulled troops out of Muslim countries.

-- Compiled from wire reports and other media sources

[Dilloduck]

it's this thing called common sense... have you ever met a pilot? I know quite a few and most of them former military... they wouldn't allow a guy with boxcutters to take over their plane... do you even know how a plane is flown, i've trained to become a pilot, one swift move with the controls and anyone not strapped in is dead... anything less than automatic assault weapons and there is no way in hell that plane gets taken over. boxcutters have at maximum a one inch blade, you are telling me that a guy at the controls of a jet airliner would allow a guy with a terrorist with a one inch blade to take over the controls without any resistance?

and I and many other people have talked to pilots and looked closely at what those planes did, no guys who barely passed flight school a month earlier are doing that... in fact someone who can barely land a single engine cessna would have a hard time keeping a commercial jet in the air at all... and according to a guy who personally tested the "hijackers" he was at best below average on a single engine tiny aircraft.

I give up----when you find out who "really" did it, give them a swift kick in the shins for me. Good luck!

[chum43]

see this is exactly why I can't say for sure one way or the other, because that seems like a really genuine claim that he pulled off 9/11, I just can't be completely convinced either way, all i'm trying to say is be open to it and don't trust the government. But that is very interesting, I've never heard or read those specific claims by bin laden... he actively admits he carried out the attacks because we are over there attacking them, strange that ron paul got attacked for saying that... but that is another topic, i have to bring this up on that discussion.

[chum43]

you do mention the joy and pride taken by many arabs about 9/11, isn't it also possible that it's a double edged sword, that bin laden benefits from taking credit for it the same way our government benefits from it happening... i'm not saying that is the case, but it's definitely a possibility... I mean if I were bin laden it would be tough for me not to take every step in taking complete credit for it.

[Dilloduck]

Your theory that the US has it's shit sooooooo together that no one could possibly hurt us except our own government is unforunately held by way too many people.

[Gaffer]

it's this thing called common sense... have you ever met a pilot? I know quite a few and most of them former military... they wouldn't allow a guy with boxcutters to take over their plane... do you even know how a plane is flown, i've trained to become a pilot, one swift move with the controls and anyone not strapped in is dead... anything less than automatic assault weapons and there is no way in hell that plane gets taken over. boxcutters have at maximum a one inch blade, you are telling me that a guy at the controls of a jet airliner would allow a guy with a terrorist with a one inch blade to take over the controls without any resistance?

and I and many other people have talked to pilots and looked closely at what those planes did, no guys who barely passed flight school a month earlier are doing that... in fact someone who can barely land a single engine cessna would have a hard time keeping a commercial jet in the air at all... and according to a guy who personally tested the "hijackers" he was at best below average on a single engine tiny aircraft.

I won't even go into the silliness of the buildings being blown up here.

As for the hijacking of the planes. It can easily be done with box cutters. I could kill you very quickly with a box cutter. All I have to do is prove it with one person then put the knife to the throat of another and tell you to get out of your seat. The assumption before 9/11 is that hijackers want to take over the plane for some purpose and land it somewhere. So pilots were trained to go along with the hijackers, no one expected suicidal muslims to take over the planes.

To say the government was behind it all is simply ignorant. 9/11 was brought about by bin laden and al queda.

[Kathianne]

I won't even go into the silliness of the buildings being blown up here.

As for the hijacking of the planes. It can easily be done with box cutters. I could kill you very quickly with a box cutter. All I have to do is prove it with one person then put the knife to the throat of another and tell you to get out of your seat. The assumption before 9/11 is that hijackers want to take over the plane for some purpose and land it somewhere. So pilots were trained to go along with the hijackers, no one expected suicidal muslims to take over the planes.

To say the government was behind it all is simply ignorant. 9/11 was brought about by bin laden and al queda.

Not too mention that up to that day, the protocol was to go along with hijackers, for the safety of everyone. Those in PA crash knew more than the others.

[chum43]

Your theory that the US has it's shit sooooooo together that no one could possibly hurt us except our own government is unforunately held by way too many people.

I didnt claim that... ever.

I'm not here saying they could have shot the planes down or stopped them at the border or even stopped them from getting on the plane, i'm just saying they couldn't(or at least it's very very very unlikely they did, which means 3 seperate occasions is a real stretch) have taken over the pilots of a jet airliner and all those passengers enough to fly huge commercial jets the way they did with the training they had.

all I ever cited was the fact that little things rarely happen, because we are an incredibly rich country, it's only the big things that end up benefitting the people who hold power in this country.

[chum43]

Not too mention that up to that day, the protocol was to go along with hijackers, for the safety of everyone. Those in PA crash knew more than the others.

these are very good points... again I'd like to point out I'm not a "truther" and i'm not trying to convince you the government did it because i don't believe that myself, all I've ever said was I was suspicious, mostly because of operation northwoods.

As for the protocol, it does explain it pretty well and maybe my argument is misplaced, maybe it shouldn't be used to suggest the government pulled it off but that the protocol is dead wrong, it's the same protocol and training that allowed the va tech shootings... why are we all being trained to be cowards? why are we handing over everything, when did we start assuming people were going to land planes and just hold people hostage gunpoint... we need to assume the worst and take out the threat in these situations. if this is the case I wouldn't blame the government i'd blame the faa coward training and all the cowards on the plane and all the coward pilots, at the very least i can't feel any sympathy for them, handing things over to terrorists with boxcutters, what happened to real men and women who would fight back?

to play conspiracy nut... it is a government agency that trains everyone to do what hostage takers and terrorists say.