Ricky - Seperation of church'n'state

[fj1200]

So basically Santorum made up the meaning in what Kennedy was trying to say and called it a paraphrase as a thin veil of an excuse for totally changing the meaning?

And all of Santorum's posturing ignores completely the context of what was going on at the time in the nation and in Kennedy's campaign. As one of the first (actual first?) catholics running for POTUS, Kennedy was facing a whispering campaign against him. People were saying that the office of POTUS would wind up being just an extension of the Vatican...papists were going to take over our government, etc.

By saying what he did, Kennedy was attempting to say "Yes, I am catholic, but my personal beliefs should not and will not take precedence over the law of the land and the duty of upholding the constitution". In effect, a wall between the government, and (his) church.

Also, if Santorum is all about saying that Kennedy's thoughts on the subject were wrong I wonder what he would have to say about these other people and the views that they had which mirrors Kennedy's.

Those are different from what Santorum's paraphrase of Kennedy. Kennedy, apparently, would take no advice from someone of faith which is completely different than the church/state separation. Perhaps the actual words of Kennedy would be helpful here because your paraphrase is different.

[logroller]

Those are different from what Santorum's paraphrase of Kennedy. Kennedy, apparently, would take no advice from someone of faith which is completely different than the church/state separation. Perhaps the actual words of Kennedy would be helpful here because your paraphrase is different.

ATL seems to do the speech, and arguably the entire premise of antiestablishment, a bit more justice than santorum-- but see for yourself. http://www.npr.org/templates/text/s....d=16920600&m=1

[fj1200]

ATL seems to do the speech, and arguably the entire premise of antiestablishment, a bit more justice than santorum-- but see for yourself. http://www.npr.org/templates/text/s....d=16920600&m=1

I was just reading it there. I'm not sure where he pulled his paraphrase from, this part likely:

But let me stress again that these are my views. For contrary to common newspaper usage, I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me.Whatever issue may come before me as president — on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject — I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates. And no power or threat of punishment could cause me to decide otherwise.But if the time should ever come — and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible — when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.

A bit of a stretch IMO.

[logroller]

I was just reading it there. I'm not sure where he pulled his paraphrase from, this part likely:


A bit of a stretch IMO.

I was thinking it was this part

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

It's a bold statement, then again, so was separation of church and state circa 1776.

[RadiomanATL]

Those are different from what Santorum's paraphrase of Kennedy. Kennedy, apparently, would take no advice from someone of faith which is completely different than the church/state separation. Perhaps the actual words of Kennedy would be helpful here because your paraphrase is different.

That is Santorum's interpretation though. Which is stretching what Kennedy said so far that it snaps.

Kennedy didn't say that he wouldn't take any advice from people of faith. Just that he would not take instruction (orders, if you will) from people of faith.

Like I said, Santorum is attacking the left's Reagan and preempting Romney on the issue.

[fj1200]

I was thinking it was this part

Methinks you correct.

[bullypulpit]

Santorum is a deeply troubled man who spends more time thinking about other people having sex than is good for him.

[LuvRPgrl]

Simple question, does Santorum have any idea what Seperation of church and state actually means?


http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=...%3D0%26DPL%3D3

He has a better idea than you and most others also.
Hey, still waiting on that source for your George Washington quote.

[cadet]

Simple question, does Santorum have any idea what Seperation of church and state actually means?


http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a=...%3D0%26DPL%3D3

There is no separation of church and state...
It's the freedom to do whatever religion you want. Just not to be forced into that religion from the Gov't. You can be religious and run for office, so long as you don't use it to take a captive audience and preach.

They can say God, Allah, Buddha, or whatever they really want.
The point is, its not the freedom to ignore/oppress religion, it's the freedom to express your religion. To guarantee your rights to whatever you want to believe in, without the fear someone's going to come into your church/temple and say you can't do that anymore.

(Also, in my opinion, the founding fathers were scared shitless that they'd end up like Europe where everything was determined by the Catholic church. But they still wanted their faith.)

[Noir]

He has a better idea than you and most others also.
Hey, still waiting on that source for your George Washington quote.

He does? Then why does he use an example the state suppressing the church as an example of a separation of church and state?

Also, as i said the last time you asked, i will provide my source when Abbey provides hers, so you can go ask Abbey if you're that interested.

[LuvRPgrl]

He does? Then why does he use an example the state suppressing the church as an example of a separation of church and state?

Also, as i said the last time you asked, i will provide my source when Abbey provides hers, so you can go ask Abbey if you're that interested.

/

I dont kn0ow what you are talking about as for Santorum using an example, I need a link.

As for Abby, what the hell does she have to do with me asking for your source fore the washington q;uote?
Sources are the soul and heart of credibility and proof in boards like this.

[Noir]

/

I dont kn0ow what you are talking about as for Santorum using an example, I need a link.

As for Abby, what the hell does she have to do with me asking for your source fore the washington q;uote?
Sources are the soul and heart of credibility and proof in boards like this.

The link is in the OP, not that you even need click it, as reading the quoted text below the link quotes Santorum with his 'French example'

She has everything to do with my source for my George Washington quote, so go ask her for her source on her George Washington quote. Maybe she will give you the proof and credibility that she denied me.

[gabosaurus]

It means that Santorum doesn't have a chance in hell of getting the GOP nomination. And even less of winning the general election.

[LuvRPgrl]

The link is in the OP, not that you even need click it, as reading the quoted text below the link quotes Santorum with his 'French example'

She has everything to do with my source for my George Washington quote, so go ask her for her source on her George Washington quote. Maybe she will give you the proof and credibility that she denied me.

u

so ;you are saying that I need to go to Abby for proof that THE QUOTE YOU HAVE on your sig is true?
you must be eating green moldy cheeseburgers with magic mushrooms on em
George W never said what you have quoted, no proof of it from you makes you a liar.

[Noir]

u

so ;you are saying that I need to go to Abby for proof that THE QUOTE YOU HAVE on your sig is true?
you must be eating green moldy cheeseburgers with magic mushrooms on em
George W never said what you have quoted, no proof of it from you makes you a liar.

No points regarding Sanatoriums church and state comments that are contradictory (at best) and which you were asking links for?

and i don't know why you're going on about this, i've told you, go ask Abbey about her sources for G. Washington quotes, i got mine from the same place she did.