My son's diagnosis

[jimnyc]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

I believe you posted about your son previously, and I had mentioned Asperger's. I know the signs well (bolded above), as my 12 year old has Asperger's. His old school for 4th grade in NJ actually paid for the evaluations, so we could get a diagnosis and have an IEP for 5th grade (when he came to live with me in PA).

If the school cannot or will not pay, check with your medical insurance to see if they might cover it at least in part. I promise you Jim, the IEP is the best thing for him if he truly has Asperger's. It will be with him throughout school, they are required by law to follow it, you get equal input as to it's contents, social skills classes in school, and if you're lucky enough to get staff even half as good as my son has had working with him, your son will indeed have a healthy, happy, productive and enjoyable life. The IEP my son has, and his (and my) involvement in Boy Scouts, has drastically improved his social skills in just a few years. If you can do it, get the evaluation.

[Thunderknuckles]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

Jim you pushed a hot button issue for me and I'm going to tell you my experience.

It seems like all male students these days are diagnosed with some attention disorder. It seems like every other boy in my son's class is on some medication.
They told me my 8 year old has ADD or some shit like that. We had him tested, FOR FREE, and sure enough the psychologist said he should be put on medication.
I was heavily against it. I don't like how in today's society we casually introduce chemicals into kids that affects their brain chemistry just because they have a hard time keeping their ass in the chair. Back in my day, we called that being a boy!
Anyway, my wife insisted we try the medication. I relented. Sure enough, the medication smoothed my boy's ass out real good. Kinda like poppin' a Valium. My wife was pleased. I was pissed because I could clearly see that this was not his natural state. But hey, whatever keeps him quiet right?
Now, here's where the shit hits the fan. I'm picking my son up from his Karate class and he tells me on the way home that he is hearing a voice in his head that is telling him to hurt his younger sister. He says he tries to ignore but it is hard. I fucking flipped out!! Long story short, it turns out that this medication does indeed cause this effect in some cases. Funny how the doc never mentioned that shit before we put him on the meds! Needles to say, we stopped that medication and I made it real clear to my wife, the doc, and the school counselor that the only way my boy will be medicated is over my dead body!

Moral of the story:
Be real careful with people who tell you your son has an attention disorder. Even if they are professionals. Make sure son actually NEEDS help. Not just something to mellow his ass out. At best, any medication is going to change your son into a slightly different version of himself. At worst, you'll wake up with him hovering over you with a knife because the voice inside his head told him to take you out.

Sorry for all the swearing. I just get real pissed over this stuff.
I swear this is all some Amazonion conspiracy to reduce men to medicated zombie-slaves.

[Abbey Marie]

Jim, I think Thunderknuckles has a really good point. How is it that all of a sudden so many boys have these "syndromes"? I am not knowledgable on the subject, so I will just tell you that my (college senior) daughter and I happened to be talking about this very thing this morning. She told me that she sometimes feels like she is the only kid on campus not taking any kind of drug to "focus". So many kids are on these drugs (Adderall, Vivarin...), and many of them just sell them because they don't feel they need them.

I am sure that Kathianne can tell us how boys mature more slowly than girls, and sometimes they just aren't ready to sit still and learn for hours a day.

Side note: When I worked for the school district, I never heard of a parent paying for an IEP. Perhaps it was never discussed, but it seems so weird to me to hear that you have to pay for it. I'll bet if you get your doctor to write something saying your son needs special accomodation, it will be free.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Jim, I think Thunderknuckles has a really good point. How is it that all of a sudden so many boys have these "syndromes"? I am not knowledgable on the subject, so I will just tell you that my (college senior) daughter and I happened to be talking about this very thing this morning. She told me that she sometimes feels like she is the only kid on campus not taking any kind of drug to "focus". So many kids are on these drugs (Adderall, Vivarin...), and many of them just sell them because they don't feel they need them.

I am sure that Kathianne can tell us how boys mature more slowly than girls, and sometimes they just aren't ready to sit still and learn for hours a day.

Side note: When I worked for the school district, I never heard of a parent paying for an IEP. Perhaps it was never discussed, but it seems so weird to me to hear that you have to pay for it. I'll bet if you get your doctor to write something saying your son needs special accomodation, it will be free.

I think he meant paying for the medical evaluation, which would then allow an IEP to be created. The IEP itself is not a cost item, according to the Americans with Disabilities act.

[jimnyc]

I figured I would get different views in here. Marcus, I have heard similar stories to what you wrote. I don't think having the IEP will hurt, and take it from there. And Abs and Thunder, I agree with you guys too, which is why I'm nervous about this whole thing. But if he does have it, he should get the help he needs. So that's why I think at least get the testing done. And as I said in the OP, he won't be going on any medication, and certainly not at this stage. Group discussions and or therapy, individualized help from others, learning classes (in or out of school). I don't mind things like that, and if it helps him better focus and get in gear, I'm all for it. But no, he won't be going on any attention meds.

As for paying, this is how she explained. She said you CAN get it done within the school system, but it's not quite as thorough as outside companies. She did say what the school offers as far as testing should be free, and that it's very possible that our insurance would cover an outside company.

It's the not knowing that bugs me. I have bipolar, or so I think, as there is no blood test, gene test, DNA test, nothing but the word of a doctor and me knowing the symptoms do in fact match. I wish there were absolutes with this and I could see proof.

[jimnyc]

I think he meant paying for the medical evaluation, which would then allow an IEP to be created. The IEP itself is not a cost item, according to the Americans with Disabilities act.

That's it! I think the testing was something about an intensive evaluation, and if it comes to it, he gets the IEP at school, which is the assistance I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individ...cation_Program

[Marcus Aurelius]

That's it! I think the testing was something about an intensive evaluation, and if it comes to it, he gets the IEP at school, which is the assistance I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individ...cation_Program

yup. That's what we had done back in NJ when he lived with his mom. I seem to remember the cost would have been something like $3,000 at the time, and the school paid as it was their suggestion. Different district probably have different policies.

As an aside, I am equally hesitant about meds for children, unless absolutely neccesary. Asperger's generally does not entail medications.

[Thunderknuckles]

I figured I would get different views in here. Marcus, I have heard similar stories to what you wrote. I don't think having the IEP will hurt, and take it from there. And Abs and Thunder, I agree with you guys too, which is why I'm nervous about this whole thing. But if he does have it, he should get the help he needs. So that's why I think at least get the testing done. And as I said in the OP, he won't be going on any medication, and certainly not at this stage. Group discussions and or therapy, individualized help from others, learning classes (in or out of school). I don't mind things like that, and if it helps him better focus and get in gear, I'm all for it. But no, he won't be going on any attention meds.

Sorry if I missed the the "no meds" part Jim. You are right to be nervous about this stuff but I think individualized help, group discussion, and therapy is a good alternative. As long as there are no meds involved. In any case, I'll bet that he comes back positive for something. They always do LOL.

[gabosaurus]

Jim, remember that bipolar is an inherited condition. I inherited it from my mom. Many other conditions are inherited as well.
I would go see a specialist and make them aware of all family conditions.

[jimnyc]

Jim, remember that bipolar is an inherited condition. I inherited it from my mom. Many other conditions are inherited as well.
I would go see a specialist and make them aware of all family conditions.

That's what I told her right off the bat, and she knew I had bipolar already. That's why I would like to get the testing done. An intensive process supposedly but hopefully we can get a more definitive answer.

[gabosaurus]

That's what I told her right off the bat, and she knew I had bipolar already. That's why I would like to get the testing done. An intensive process supposedly but hopefully we can get a more definitive answer.

Intensive is barely the word for it. For me, it was a couple of days. They have quite a few tests and you need to talk with a few people. There are a lot of very good meds out that can control bipolar and other manic afflictions. The key is taking the meds as prescribed.

[Kathianne]

Jordan got his 4th quarter progress report on Monday. 4 classes scoring in the 91-100 range. He has 3 classes in the 81-90 range, and still having an issue with Chinese. He'll pass that class but requires going to extra help weekly and trying much harder than his other classes.

The science class report was odd. He's scoring an A, but the teacher said he could do so much better if he applied himself, was more organized and participated more.

He's a bright kid, very bright, but doesn't have the greatest social skills, and has horrible organization skills. He does just enough to get by at times and he knows this. He breezes through his homework in minutes, because he knows the work, but makes chicken scratch and again performs well enough to get by.

He goes for extra math help for an hour every Tuesday. He does the same on Thursdays for Chinese. He sees my Aunt for tutoring Tuesday evening, and she'll help him with anything he might be struggling with.

A couple of years ago, based on his guidance counselors recommendation, we have been having him go to a counselor every Tuesday as well. It's a community placed where kids from various schools go to, from bad kids to kids that just need someone to talk to. In Jordan's case it was good as he now had an outlet, someone he can speak to about his issues in school, what bugs him, what scares him, or basically anything at all. Myself and my wife follow up on other days to get reports, and work together as a family.

Well today I sat down again with the counselor. She is convinced that he has Aspergers. She said that the bipolar, aspergers and ADD all present certain similarities, but in his case, it's the "being stuck on certain processes" and not being able to move on which makes her lean towards the aspergers. He functions, but struggles with organization, social activities, focusing and presents some anger issues due to a lack of understanding.

With that though, she says his IQ is well above average. She said he'll have no problem doing what he wants as he grows older and can even excel without issue, it's just a struggle at times.

But for finality, since she can't technically make a diagnosis, she is recommending some "IEP" test which runs about $4,000 dollars! Yikes! She did say though, he might be able to receive certain accommodations as a result. I don't mean necessarily like the ADA, but rather support through the school, organizational classes, someone that helps people daily with organization problems. I don't know. I'm not even 100% sure what aspergers is yet.

But I do wonder if it's bipolar, since that's what I have and it apparently almost always gets passed on to someone. Either way, just a stumbling block, but one of understanding. Maybe with more knowledge to come it will be easier for me to attack certain issues. I would rather, if it HAD to be one, that it lean towards aspergers, as she said no medicine is involved, and I really don't want my 12 year old taking medicine.

Anyone have info/tips? Kath, you have students or have had any with aspergers?

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.

that's exactly the way I went with my son.

[jimnyc]

Get the testing from a neurologist out of school. Don't go the psychologist route, they tend to just reinforce what the schools say.

IEP is actually, "Individual Educational Plan," the testing would be done by a school psychologist. Very likely they will 'find' he qualifies for an IEP. This would allow him extra time for testing, preferential seating, usually a special ed. co-teacher/aid in his classes.

I'm very pro-special ed. when necessary. I just don't know if you want your 'highly performing' son labeled when it seems his struggles are primarily social-special education will NOT help that, and some C's and B's in very challenging classes.

Now a neurologist, especially a pediatric specialist is more likely to have some suggestions, especially if such a diagnosis is made. One, Jordan may be better off taking classes like Chinese, even math via computer. If indeed he's very bright or gifted, especially with Asperger's, classes are not likely to help much with social skills. Some martial arts, which I think he's already in? would be better choices. I'd also recommend something like cross country, where he's part of a 'team,' but the competition is himself against his past times.

What you might try about 'organizational skills,' Color code each subject: Red for Chinese , Blue for math, Yellow for science, and so on. 2 pocket folders for each class-one side labeled, "Homework to hand in," other side, "Completed and graded papers." For each subject also get either same color coded spiral notebooks or subject dividers with same colors. Add loose leaf paper between each.

Get two Trapper Keepers. All folders, separators, spirals and MOST IMPORTANT student planner, (ask for a 2nd) go into each Trapper. Label each appropriately: AM Classes, PM Classes. AM being classes before lunch, PM after. Inside the cover attach the color coding system-kids with organization problems tend to need any reinforcements you can give them. Teach him to head papers and notes as follows, (you will want to have his counselor get teachers on board, shouldn't be an issue:

Name
Date
Subject
Period

Even if there is some 'misfiling,' it is much easier to get everything back to chronological order, imperative for test reviews, especially mid-terms and finals.

Tell him to highlight important information in one color, say yellow. When making corrections to homework or some other work, use a different pen than he normally writes with, say he writes notes in blue or black, he should use green or purple or red to make corrections. Based on the number of corrections, you'll see very quickly what areas need to be focused on. No sense in repeat studying of what is known, focus studying on what isn't known.

There's more, just let me know if you need it.

Excellent ideas, printed that out.

I would like for him to get any help that he can, but I would rather it not be labeled as you say. I think he would be concerned about other kids saying crap. I think he's going to need continual help in learning how to keep himself organized, as well as continual help with focusing issues. I like following the ideas like you put out there, and wait until we can get some testing and further feedback. I'd be curious if he went to 2 different places and see if they diagnose similarly.

I'm not downplaying what I don't know or understand, but thus far the definitive issues I see is his addiction to whatever he touches, whether that be the computer, laptop, Ipod, TV, or even reading a book. He wants to focus on ONE thing at a time. Let him do things 5 different times with instruction and separately, and he'll ace it, have him juggle and mingle, and he feels overwhelmed.