MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL

[fj1200]

Here's WEF spokesperson Yuval Harari is making the point.... as an atheist... as a secularist.... that rights and nations... are pure fictions.
Made up stories, "like religion".
start at 9:28 for 1 minutes or so of the relevant portion


Since people with Harari's take on "religion" as, just made up stories that have NO place in serious public or legal discourse,
So they also can not find ANY RATIONAL/REAL foundation for rights, or nations, or the morals in laws either.
It's just whatever the group decides or whatever individuals can get away with.

If there is No God, some folks want to believe that each man is a god.
But it turns out that each man is just an animal.

So we really can't play the "we must separate religion from politics" card and expect SECULAR people or purely SECULAR gov'ts to continue to take the concepts of rights, equality etc etc seriously.
Accept maybe as more fictional "religious" ideas that should be eventually excluded from gov't.



(& yes of course, atheist and the non religious HAVE morals (as much as religious people)... personal morals... but they have no RATIONAL basis for them.
Like people who claim "love at 1st sight", few would deny a persons REAL feelings, however most understand that there's no RATIONAL reason for them.
In contrast to a love grown by real experience and knowledge of a persons character and mutual compatibility. the difference is one is based on real knowledge of another person while the other is purely on personal feelings.)

Again, he's not a WEF spokesperson. Not sure why you seek to elevate these people into something they are not. But I've been thinking about your earlier posit. Not only do you need to convert those wayward Christians to your thinking, you also need to convert those wayward atheists to your thinking. Those are two things that are fools errands IMHO because I don't think it's necessary. But we could just review the thread rather than getting back into it all over again.

[Gunny]

Again, he's not a WEF spokesperson. Not sure why you seek to elevate these people into something they are not. But I've been thinking about your earlier posit. Not only do you need to convert those wayward Christians to your thinking, you also need to convert those wayward atheists to your thinking. Those are two things that are fools errands IMHO because I don't think it's necessary. But we could just review the thread rather than getting back into it all over again.

Judeo-Christian God sells only to a certain segment of society. That has to be considered when trying to sell a better society to all.

[fj1200]

Judeo-Christian God sells only to a certain segment of society. That has to be considered when trying to sell a better society to all.

True. And in my opinion not necessary.

[revelarts]

Again, he's not a WEF spokesperson.

You're right The WEF says he's just one of their "Agenda Contributors".
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/authors/yuval-harari/
Yuval Harari - Agenda Contributor | World Economic Forum

Not sure why you seek to elevate these people into something they are not.

Not trying to elevate him, It's just how I was 1st introduced to him and it's hard for me to shake the mislabel.
It's not point I want to bother over. I'll get it right eventually.

But I've been thinking about your earlier posit. Not only do you need to convert those wayward Christians to your thinking, you also need to convert those wayward atheists to your thinking.
Those are two things that are fools errands IMHO because I don't think it's necessary. But we could just review the thread rather than getting back into it all over again.

For the sake of the nation It's not necessary to everyone to convert.
For the sake of the nations health it's not necessary for everyone to believe most Christian doctrines.
Just acknowledge some basics foundational principals. that many say they believe ANYWAY. they just don't realize WHY they believe it or WHERE the beliefs came from.
Plus here's the thing, the constitution and most law up until the 1960-70-80s ALREADY have the principals embedded there ALREADY.
So it's not like it's a LONG way to go.

As far a a fool's errand goes , well who would have thought that homosexual marriage and men competing in women's sports AS "WOMEN" was a realistic goal to shoot for in 1985?
It'd sound insane then and still sounds insane, but it's HERE.

Also, again I ask what's the alternative.
If you've got a way(s) to convince people that the reality of "Human Rights" & personal freedom, personal property, 2 genders etc needs to preserved and reclaimed let me know.

the 1st part of what I'm saying is the the reason we've had anything like that TODAY is because it came from the religious TRUTHS of Christianity.
If you know of another way to maintain and restore them let me know.

[fj1200]

Also, again I ask what's the alternative.
If you've got a way(s) to convince people that the reality of "Human Rights" & personal freedom, personal property, 2 genders etc needs to preserved and reclaimed let me know.

the 1st part of what I'm saying is the the reason we've had anything like that TODAY is because it came from the religious TRUTHS of Christianity.
If you know of another way to maintain and restore them let me know.

As I recall we've discussed it already. Throwing the bible argument at them will be counterproductive. Advocating because "the bible says" will not work. Attempt to persuade them with reasonable arguments and then the fact that you might have a biblical reference after they're already listening becomes a different discussion.

[Kathianne]

As I recall we've discussed it already. Throwing the bible argument at them will be counterproductive. Advocating because "the bible says" will not work. Attempt to persuade them with reasonable arguments and then the fact that you might have a biblical reference after they're already listening becomes a different discussion.

It shouldn't be so hard to observe X and Y chromosomes. Let the alphbeters prove their take on. reality.

[revelarts]

As I recall we've discussed it already. Throwing the bible argument at them will be counterproductive.
Advocating because "the bible says" will not work.

It's worked for more than a few people.
But why can't you hear when i say that many items are already in the constitution and our older laws. And appeals to the best of our traditions.
Also reality is on the bible's side, simply because the bible is TRUE. whether on not people believe it. there are 2 genders , the bible says it, and as K mentioned, science show it as well.
what part of that doesn't stick?
why do you keep assuming the Bible is the ONLY tool i want to use. I say it's the ULTIMATE tool and the only foundation. But it's not the only place where it's principals are seated and can be pointed too.
Part of the problem is even when you ask people to follow the constitution they become selective and want to ignore many of the basics when it suits them.
It seems most folks simply want their way and don't have seriously held principals, many people operate out of habits, convenience, personal preferences, "cultural norms" and pragmatism.

Attempt to persuade them with reasonable arguments and then the fact that you might have a biblical reference after they're already listening becomes a different discussion.

yes, no one said you have to Start with the Bible.
Folks have been doing it that way for some time.
However if you're dealing with folks like Harari. and what his type are teaching in colleges.
they aren't interested in reasonable arguments they have a different world view of what human beings are, and what factors apply to reality. they have a different religion.
Harari doesn't believe humans have rights. what reasonable argument are going to make?
He says human rights and freedoms are PURE fiction.
What's the secular reasoned response would you start with to back the constitution and bill of rights's view on that, and secure the principals in other law?

[revelarts]

Judeo-Christian God sells only to a certain segment of society. That has to be considered when trying to sell a better society to all.

Europe was 100% pagan before most of it turn to Christianity as a majority world view.
Irish Druids where literally drinking blood out of human skulls and doing human sacrifices to pagan gods. Heck the Greeks had human sacrifices regularly including hunting little girls and eating them. I suspect those people weren't an easy sell.
We often fail to remember how much the Truth of the Bible changed everything in Europe & around the world.
The US is often ready to throw cash & bodies into war in foreign countries "for freedom". the battle of ideas for the freedom we talk about cost a lot less in every way.

And if we really believe in God can we put a limit on what he's able to do?
Are we supposed to sit back and say, weelllll most people wont like it so I won't mention it?

I'm not saying anyone needs to be obnoxious but, Jesus and the Apostles didn't get killed or change the world because they kept their mouths shut to get along with everyone.
And they never expected everyone to get on board.
And they never have but the world changed anyway because enough did.

[fj1200]

It's worked for more than a few people.
But why can't you hear when i say that many items are already in the constitution and our older laws. And appeals to the best of our traditions.
Also reality is on the bible's side, simply because the bible is TRUE. whether on not people believe it. there are 2 genders , the bible says it, and as K mentioned, science show it as well.
what part of that doesn't stick?
why do you keep assuming the Bible is the ONLY tool i want to use. I say it's the ULTIMATE tool and the only foundation. But it's not the only place where it's principals are seated and can be pointed too.
Part of the problem is even when you ask people to follow the constitution they become selective and want to ignore many of the basics when it suits them.
It seems most folks simply want their way and don't have seriously held principals, many people operate out of habits, convenience, personal preferences, "cultural norms" and pragmatism.

You're trying to convince millions. Millions of indoctrinated obstinate souls who cringe at religion and the bible. I assume the bible is the only tool you want to use because it's the one you keep going on about. We've, arguably, been moving towards a more "constitutional" interpretation for 50 years whether some like it or not. And if the bible isn't the only tool, or not the first tool, then what is?

yes, no one said you have to Start with the Bible.
Folks have been doing it that way for some time.
However if you're dealing with folks like Harari. and what his type are teaching in colleges.
they aren't interested in reasonable arguments they have a different world view of what human beings are, and what factors apply to reality. they have a different religion.
Harari doesn't believe humans have rights. what reasonable argument are going to make?
He says human rights and freedoms are PURE fiction.
What's the secular reasoned response would you start with to back the constitution and bill of rights's view on that, and secure the principals in other law?

Who cares what he says. He's an egghead who is going to blather on and on to people who agree with him. Be better than him.

[revelarts]

...We've, arguably, been moving towards a more "constitutional" interpretation for 50 years whether some like it or not...

ok what?? we've been moving TOWARDS a more constitutional interpretation over the past 50 years?
what country are you talking about?
Not the one that surveils all our communications, tortures people, where presidents drone strike foreign nations and us citizens willy nilly, search homes without warrants, ask for papers, has free speech zones, censors media, arrest journalist, bans people from expressing personal religious view in various venues, etc etc..

Who cares what he says. He's an egghead who is going to blather on and on to people who agree with him. Be better than him.

He's one of the millions who cringe at religion FJ, he and thousands like him are teaching U.S. students in universities today.
What do you say to him and them about human rights, the bill of rights & all the laws that are still on the books that align with the ideals of freedom and personal property.
please don't dodge the question.
you don't like using the Bible ok.
what are you going to use instead, or as well, to convince millions who have NO standards excepts whatever the current cultural winds say.

[Gunny]

Europe was 100% pagan before most of it turn to Christianity as a majority world view.
Irish Druids where literally drinking blood out of human skulls and doing human sacrifices to pagan gods. Heck the Greeks had human sacrifices regularly including hunting little girls and eating them. I suspect those people weren't an easy sell.
We often fail to remember how much the Truth of the Bible changed everything in Europe & around the world.
The US is often ready to throw cash & bodies into war in foreign countries "for freedom". the battle of ideas for the freedom we talk about cost a lot less in every way.

And if we really believe in God can we put a limit on what he's able to do?
Are we supposed to sit back and say, weelllll most people wont like it so I won't mention it?

I'm not saying anyone needs to be obnoxious but, Jesus and the Apostles didn't get killed or change the world because they kept their mouths shut to get along with everyone.
And they never expected everyone to get on board.
And they never have but the world changed anyway because enough did.

Once again, lost in your idealism rather than dealing with fact. You can spare me the repetitious, religious history lessons. I'm pretty up to snuff. No one is arguing Western society isn't based on Judeo-Christian ethic. You're the only one providing examples of those who are. Where the ethics morality came from is irrelevant to your own example. You don't have to sell the history of it to those who know where it came from. You have to sell the ethic to the people who believe as the person in your example does. Obviously, you aren't going to sell your religion as a motivating factor to these people. I can go on and on about the fallacy to their thinking and have at times on more than one message board, but that is not the primary objective the OP seeks.

The primary objective is to sell the principles/ethics to ALL, regardless religion, to create a better society. For ALL. Since most believe they have to answer to right and wrong and where it comes from, regardless the gymnastics required to get there, it is THERE where you start. You don't start by slamming the door in your own face with a message that turns off and tunes out those that would otherwise be on board.

[revelarts]

The primary objective is to sell the principles/ethics to ALL, regardless religion, to create a better society. For ALL. Since most believe they have to answer to right and wrong and where it comes from, regardless the gymnastics required to get there, it is THERE where you start. You don't start by slamming the door in your own face with a message that turns off and tunes out those that would otherwise be on board.

Not my primary objective but everyone has their own path.

so again
What's your sales pitch?
I've asked many times the only response i'm get over and over is basically "DON'T MENTION GOD or THE BIBLE!, that's BAD." from everyone.
fine. i get it. sheesh. YOU & FJ (others?) don't want to mention God or the Bible or foundational details of European or American history.
I think I've made my points about as clear as i can.
What's your sales pitch.

Harari and tens of thousands, of others don't believe humans have rights. what reasonable argument are going to make?
He says human rights and freedoms are PURE fiction.
What's the secular reasoned response would you start with to back the constitution and bill of rights's view on that, and secure the principals in other law? He's one of the millions who cringe at religion, he and thousands like him are teaching U.S. students in universities today. What do you say to him and them about human rights, the bill of rights & all the laws that are still on the books that align with the ideals of freedom and personal property?

[fj1200]

ok what?? we've been moving TOWARDS a more constitutional interpretation over the past 50 years?
what country are you talking about?
Not the one that surveils all our communications, tortures people, where presidents drone strike foreign nations and us citizens willy nilly, search homes without warrants, ask for papers, has free speech zones, censors media, arrest journalist, bans people from expressing personal religious view in various venues, etc etc..

I said arguably. Start a Constitution thread if you want to discuss specifics but the country and the Court has been moving right since the 70s.

He's one of the millions who cringe at religion FJ, he and thousands like him are teaching U.S. students in universities today.
What do you say to him and them about human rights, the bill of rights & all the laws that are still on the books that align with the ideals of freedom and personal property.
please don't dodge the question.
you don't like using the Bible ok.
what are you going to use instead, or as well, to convince millions who have NO standards excepts whatever the current cultural winds say.

I'm sure he and others like him are beyond hope but those people are always going to exist. And like I said I don't care what he thinks, he's not the target audience.

[fj1200]

Not my primary objective but everyone has their own path.

so again
What's your sales pitch?
I've asked many times the only response i'm get over and over is basically "DON'T MENTION GOD or THE BIBLE!, that's BAD." from everyone.
fine. i get it. sheesh. YOU & FJ (others?) don't want to mention God or the Bible or foundational details of European or American history.
I think I've made my points about as clear as i can.
What's your sales pitch.

Harari and tens of thousands, of others don't believe humans have rights. what reasonable argument are going to make?
He says human rights and freedoms are PURE fiction.
What's the secular reasoned response would you start with to back the constitution and bill of rights's view on that, and secure the principals in other law? He's one of the millions who cringe at religion, he and thousands like him are teaching U.S. students in universities today. What do you say to him and them about human rights, the bill of rights & all the laws that are still on the books that align with the ideals of freedom and personal property?

I never said that. I said when I explain the basis for a law I'm not going to yell out, "BIBLE!" and be done. You're still dodging the issue of Christians who will distinctly counter the bible argument that you make and at that point you're arguing theology not laws.

[revelarts]

I never said that. I said when I explain the basis for a law I'm not going to yell out, "BIBLE!" and be done. You're still dodging the issue of Christians who will distinctly counter the bible argument that you make and at that point you're arguing theology not laws.

still haven't heard a sales pitch or argument to Harari and those like him that you keep saying won't listen to the Bible.

What's your pitch to THEM?
what's the basis of law when YOU explain it to them?