True to our Native Land

[retiredman]

That's exactly why i asked earlier why they didnt focus on just uplifting people in general. That is what Christ wants us to do. I've never seen Christ tell us to only uplift certain races. It just seems completely contrary to the message of the Gospel. The good news of the Gospel is specifically that Christ descended below all things so we can rise above them.

you should consider their neighborhood...

[Dilloduck]

you should consider their neighborhood...

I thought Jews were the only race that trumped Christianity

[Yurt]

you should consider their neighborhood...

at least you admit obama favors one race over another

[GW in Ohio]

bringing up white slavery from the roman empire is a tad far fetched. the fact of the matter is: black people IN THIS COUNTRY were considered property not all that long ago in the sweep of human history. Black people were preemptorily lynched long after they had been freed from the bonds of slavery. Black people were disenfranchised politically in my lifetime. Black people in America have a long and bitter history of second class citizenship. Obama's church seeks to uplift them. His church has the backing and unequivocal support of the United Church of Christ - which is my denomination. But DO keep acting as if being black in America is no different than being white. DO keep making this a major issue in your attempts to denigrate a virtuous public servant. I expected nothing more...and I am sure, neither did he.

manfrommaine: You did a good job of responding.

[Dilloduck]

manfrommaine: You did a good job of responding.

oh shit another one

[GW in Ohio]

at least you admit obama favors one race over another

I would not expect hard-core right wingers to find anything to like about Obama.......anything.

But you guys will be among the dwindling numbers of right wingers and Repubs who bother to go out and vote in November. Considerable numbers of your right-wing brethren will choose to sit this one out because they detest one candidate and don't care much for the other one.

[Yurt]

I would not expect hard-core right wingers to find anything to like about Obama.......anything.

But you guys will be among the dwindling numbers of right wingers and Repubs who bother to go out and vote in November. Considerable numbers of your right-wing brethren will choose to sit this one out because they detest one candidate and don't care much for the other one.

so like, can ya like, actually respond to what i said or are you here to offer us only empty headed rhetoric?

[avatar4321]

you should consider their neighborhood...

Why? You said there are people from all races in the neighborhood and they wont shut out whites. Why is the white poor person in any need of less uplifting than the black poor person?

Ministers of Christ are called to uplift all men. Not just certain ones dependent on race or class.

[avatar4321]

manfrommaine: You did a good job of responding.

I don't see much difference. No one alive has been enslaved. No one alive has owned slaves in this nation. This nation is one of the first in history to end slavery. And it cost the blood of millions of people to do it.

The idea that the payment they made with their blood wasn't enough deeply bothers me. But some people believe that people who had no involvement in slavery somehow owes something to people who were never slaves. It's their right. But the race baiting they use to justify this is unexecusable after so many people died to make them free.

[avatar4321]

I would not expect hard-core right wingers to find anything to like about Obama.......anything.

But you guys will be among the dwindling numbers of right wingers and Repubs who bother to go out and vote in November. Considerable numbers of your right-wing brethren will choose to sit this one out because they detest one candidate and don't care much for the other one.

He's a good speaker. Thus I've just refused your premise. That is one good thing.

But like most on the right, policy is more important than style. We are not going to agree with policies that involve taking freedom and power from people and giving it to government no matter how nice the bow looks on the package.

[retiredman]

Why? You said there are people from all races in the neighborhood and they wont shut out whites. Why is the white poor person in any need of less uplifting than the black poor person?

Ministers of Christ are called to uplift all men. Not just certain ones dependent on race or class.

I said there were people from all races in their congregation. The church is in a predominantly black neighborhood. YOu have to ask, if the mission really is exclusionary to whites as you say, why would there be ANY white members? Why would whites have to travel past other UCC churches nearer to their homes to get to Trinity?

[Immanuel]

it helps teach them that they are equal citizens. Irishmen can be proud of their Irish heritage and form clubs and associations that glorify their ancestral home, and nobody bats an eye. Trinity UCC tries to make downtrodden black americans be proud of their black heritage and their cultural connection to the african continent, and when THEY do it, every white boy on the internet is threatened. give it a break

So... when a black man is all about uplifting blacks, it's all fine and dandy. But when a white man is all about uplifting whites, he's a filthy racist. It's a double standard and a travesty, and if people were truly NOT racist in any shape, way or form, they wouldn't be party to any exclusively race based, "uplifting" entities, of any type. How blacks get away with it, I don't know... how a *CHURCH* gets away with it is even a bigger mystery.

1) What does the mission of Obama's church have to do with his candidacy? Do we dwelve into the mission of the church that John McCain is a member of? Why are we bringing this church's mission into question?

2) Just reading the mission of this chruch bothers me. I've always disliked segregation and this seems to me to be nothing more than segregation. However, I've never been to this chruch. I've never heard the pastoral staff preach. I know nothing of how this church operates or the message they preach. The perception I have based off the mission statement may be way off.

Uplifting a people is not a bad thing. Inciting them to racial conflict would be.

3) The one problem that I have is that if a white man were to run for office belonging to a church whose mission specifically stated uplifting people of aryan decent i.e. David Duke there would be hell to pay and rightly so. I would not vote for such a candidate if he espoused the mission of that church. He'd be way off base in my opinion and not worthy of even a casual thought about getting my vote.

To my knowledge, Obama has not even mentioned his church... of course, I wouldn't either. His church affiliation should never have been brought into this campaign.

To sum up, Obama's church affiliation is of little consequence in this campaign. It wouldn't come up if he were white and it should not come up now. If Obama believed in Black supremacy and espoused a revolt and racial retaliation, I'd have a problem with that but then I'm sure his rhetoric would give him away as a racist. So far, I haven't heard that from him.

I'm not going to vote for him, but that decision won't be based upon his church affiliation.

Immie

[avatar4321]

I said there were people from all races in their congregation. The church is in a predominantly black neighborhood. YOu have to ask, if the mission really is exclusionary to whites as you say, why would there be ANY white members? Why would whites have to travel past other UCC churches nearer to their homes to get to Trinity?

do you know any that do? Or do you just know of people who live in the neighborhood and go to the Church regardless?

[GW in Ohio]

and this matters........why? because a "black" person is running for president.... get over yourself.



bullshit. you have no objectivity and have lost all reason by supporting that church's ideals. why don't you go back to the motherland? if your commitment is to the motherland, why are you here?




you are the biggest hypocrite i have ever met. you shun white slavery because it happened (x) years ago, yet, you have to qualms about forever "uplifting" dark skinned people.

you ALSO again have failed to address the "motherland"

what say you to the loyalty? and don't ignore it ............ again

Lot of anger in your post, Yurt.

Also a lot of racism.

I think a lot of you white folks here are threatened by the thought of a black president. Are you afraid he's gonna take revenge for all those centuries of slavery?

The irony is all this is that you righties feel threatened by Obama, when the truth is that Obama is 180 degrees from the stereotype of black men that normally threatens you.

Obama is better educated, more intelligent, dresses better and is better looking than most of us white people. I can see you being threatened by an Al Sharpton, or a Jesse Jackson.

But Obama? He's everything us white folks aspire to be.

Loosen up your sphincter muscles, right wingers.

[retiredman]

do you know any that do? Or do you just know of people who live in the neighborhood and go to the Church regardless?

my brother goes to a UCC church in the northwestern suburbs of Chicago and relayed that information to me. There are about thirty UCC churches within a seven mile radius of Trinity...yet Trinity is the largest single UCC congregation in America. If there were whites "in the neighborhhod", they certainly have many more choices than Trinity.

UCC... those are the guys who were the Pilgrims... old white new england denomination. go figure.