My disdain for the poor.

[Kathianne]

You said it yourself...BAD FRICKIN' CHOICES! It's called personal responsibility. If your choices (and yes, choosing to sleep around and get pregnant is a CHOICE) lead you to a bad situation, tough cookies. I'll help you out, but only if you show enough responsibility to make something of that help.

I have to agree. Yes, many are born into poverty or find themselves in poverty due to circumstances. The question is then, what choices are made? Are the children encourage to excel in school, regardless of how poor the teachers are or facilities? Are programs for updating/acquiring skills available through the county/state/fed used? If possessing low skills, does one get to work on time, with clean appearance? Work as hard as if this position was a 'stepping stone'?

So many choices are there.

[loosecannon]

the thread starters disdain if for those that choose to be victims and choose to be poor....people do not choose to be sick and do not choose to be born so your analogy there is flawed....people choose to be rich by working hard

People don't choose to be poor either. And the consequences of one man's wealth is the poverty of many others.

There are limited resources and limited currency.

Everybody can not "lift themselves up from their boot straps". And even the most ardent capitalists admit that born abilities play a major role in peoples success and failure.

If everybody lifted themselves up by their boot straps the average income today would be $10,000/year/capita.

And that IS limited by resource capacity.

[Mr. P]

I have to agree. Yes, many are born into poverty or find themselves in poverty due to circumstances. The question is then, what choices are made? Are the children encourage to excel in school, regardless of how poor the teachers are or facilities? Are programs for updating/acquiring skills available through the county/state/fed used? If possessing low skills, does one get to work on time, with clean appearance? Work as hard as if this position was a 'stepping stone'?

So many choices are there.

And lets not forget the personal drive and determination to do better.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Kathianne]

And lets not forget the personal drive and determination to do better.
Where there's a will, there's a way.

Agreed. It's incumbent on parents that find themselves in poverty, to help instill that personal drive, determination, and self-discipline so their children know how to succeed.

[Hobbit]

People don't choose to be poor either. And the consequences of one man's wealth is the poverty of many others.

There are limited resources and limited currency.

Everybody can not "lift themselves up from their boot straps". And even the most ardent capitalists admit that born abilities play a major role in peoples success and failure.

If everybody lifted themselves up by their boot straps the average income today would be $10,000/year/capita.

And that IS limited by resource capacity.

That is zero-sum thinking, and its idiocy is only topped by your faux definition of capitalism.

[loosecannon]

That is zero-sum thinking, and its idiocy is only topped by your faux definition of capitalism.

Nope, the earth's economy actually is finite at every given moment. It is limited by available resources.

The idea that there is an unlimited potential for growth is a falacy toward it's conclusion and an abstraction throughout it's duration.

[manu1959]

People don't choose to be poor either. And the consequences of one man's wealth is the poverty of many others.

There are limited resources and limited currency.

Everybody can not "lift themselves up from their boot straps". And even the most ardent capitalists admit that born abilities play a major role in peoples success and failure.

If everybody lifted themselves up by their boot straps the average income today would be $10,000/year/capita.

And that IS limited by resource capacity.

you are so full of yourself.....you grew up rich didn't you.....never had a job in your life....and you pretend to lecture me

[manu1959]

Nope, the earth's economy actually is finite at every given moment. It is limited by available resources.

The idea that there is an unlimited potential for growth is a falacy toward it's conclusion and an abstraction throughout it's duration.

well then we should just quit right now

[loosecannon]

i grew up working poor .... single parent working two jobs .... two kids ... i then worked my ass of to go to university in California then worked my ass off to go from 8 / hr in 1983 in the san francisco bay area....to my current comfortable life style...

....stop making excuses for the incompetent

Congratulation.

BUT, 85% of your wealth was unearned. It came to you by virtue of living in the worlds richest nation.

And among the 15% that you actually did earn by apparently hard work and dedication you were the product of a system that is not designed to produce success.

It is designed to produce success and failure both at once.

Not every person can graduate from college with a degree. The purpose of college is to sort out a class of more capable, conformed citizens from the bulk of less intelligent, less capable and then to reward both groups with different sets of opportunities.

It is purely a wild and erroneous falacy that everybody can succeed at the same level by virtue of hard work.

Congrats for your successes. But the system is designed to reward you while effectively punishing others who may actually work considerably harder than you do for each dollar thet they earn.

[manu1959]

Congratulation.

BUT, 85% of your wealth was unearned. It came to you by virtue of living in the worlds richest nation.

And among the 15% that you actually did earn by apparently hard work and dedication you were the product of a system that is not designed to produce success.

It is designed to produce success and failure both at once.

Not every person can graduate from college with a degree. The purpose of college is to sort out a class of more capable, conformed citizens from the bulk of less intelligent, less capable and then to reward both groups with different sets of opportunities.

It is purely a wild and erroneous falacy that everybody can succeed at the same level by virtue of hard work.

Congrats for your successes. But the system is designed to reward you while effectively punishing others who may actually work considerably harder than you do for each dollar thet they earn.

wow....you must be miserable to live with....looks like i should move to bremuda

http://www.mrdowling.com/800gdppercapita.html

[loosecannon]

you are so full of yourself.....you grew up rich didn't you.....never had a job in your life....and you pretend to lecture me

Your response is so bizzarre on it's face and so out of context to my discussion that I will let you try it again.

And no I grew up in a military family, worked my ass off for the from the time I was 8 until I was about 40 and have been slowing down since then.

How about you?

[GW in Ohio]

You said it yourself...BAD FRICKIN' CHOICES! It's called personal responsibility. If your choices (and yes, choosing to sleep around and get pregnant is a CHOICE) lead you to a bad situation, tough cookies. I'll help you out, but only if you show enough responsibility to make something of that help.

We are not that far apart. I am for helping people who will take the responsibility for their lives at that point....who will recognize that they're being given a helping hand, a second chance......and apply their own efforts to better themselves.

If at that point, they continue the behavior that landed them in poverty....if they continue to pop out children like you pop toast out of the toaster....if they continue to do drugs, or gamble, or whatever......then I'm for cutting them loose and leaving them to their own devices.

But I know that we've all made mistakes in our lives...made some bad choices.....some of us suffer more than others for the same bad choices.

I believe in second chances. I believe in lending a helping hand through (may my tongue fall out of my mouth for saying it) government programs.

I guess that's why I'm a liberal.

[manu1959]

Your response is so bizzarre on it's face and so out of context to my discussion that I will let you try it again.

And no I grew up in a military family, worked my ass off for the from the time I was 8 until I was about 40 and have been slowing down since then.

How about you?

my response was spot on....if you are going to project opinions onto me about what i do or do not know then turn about is fair play.....growing up military...gee what a burden....how did you every survive the poverty....as for working your ass off....as you pointed out ...Congrats for your successes. But the system is designed to reward you while effectively punishing others who may actually work considerably harder than you do for each dollar they they earn...

[loosecannon]

my response was spot on....if you are going to project opinions onto me about what i do or do not know then turn about is fair play.....growing up military...gee what a burden....how did you every survive the poverty....as for working your ass off....as you pointed out ...Congrats for your successes. But the system is designed to reward you while effectively punishing others who may actually work considerably harder than you do for each dollar they they earn...

first off manu the quote you reponded to wasn't addressed to you, it was addressed to Hobbit, read the thread.

Second I am not the person spouting "disdain for the poor". I am pointing out that disdain for the rich is at least as valid as disdain for the poor.

[manu1959]

first off manu the quote you reponded to wasn't addressed to you, it was addressed to Hobbit, read the thread.

Second I am not the person spouting "disdain for the poor". I am pointing out that disdain for the rich is at least as valid as disdain for the poor.

first off ... it is a message board and i will post what i like....

second ... in the context of the thread which is the disdain for the poor who choose to be poor and make poor choices and cause their own misery .... to say that disdain for the rich is equally valid ... is disingenuous