Mega-church hypocrisy?

[KitchenKitten99]

I have been toying with the idea of going back to church. I am searching locally, and I think I have found a few I would like to visit.

Through this search, I have even looked at the mega-churches that I already know about, and have been to (mostly to see what makes them so popular). One I was member of until my grandmother passed away. I pretty much stopped going after her funeral there. Haven't set foot in the place since then, and that was 17 years ago. I have been in churches since then, just not that one. It is a fairly large church, but one of the smaller of the 'mega churches'. I don't really have an issue with that one in particular. I think it just feels part of my past life, and I don't ever really remembering liking it there. My grandmother did, which is why we went. I think after her funeral there... I also 'laid to rest' my desire to attend there. I was pretty angry with God for a while after that. Well, that and I really never felt a sense of belonging there to begin with. I always felt like an outsider.

There is another church locally, called the Living Word Christian Center. I guess the pastor, Mac Hammond, is pretty well known, even nationally.

I see this place and it is the size of two city blocks. Seriously. And they just expanded and added a flashy new LED sign that stands over the highway. There used to be someone's home that sat where that sign did. I watched them in the process of moving it a month or so ago, not realizing it was the church expanding.

Anyway... why does this church just reek of hypocrisy? I see the size of the place... if you walk from one end to the other, it takes 10 minutes. Now they do have a school there, but still. I am told that their annual budget is $35 million. I can't imagine the cost of the overhead for heating/power/water, etc.

Then there is the fact that Mac Hammond drives a Porche Cayenne. My husband used to attend this church with his ex-wife. Other than during school hours, the building is closed to the public most of the time. How is this supposed to make those seeking Him feel welcome?

Their new wing cost something around $7-10 million.

This 'church' is set in one of the lowest-income areas in the Twin Cities suburbs. It is riddled with crime and poverty.

They couldn't spend the $7-10 million on helping some of the people in the community?

To me, I see this Mac Hammond guy not really doing this for the love of His word and the desire to 'shepherd' the flock and bring those who seek Him in. I see this guy as profiting off His word. With multiple homes and even a private plane... this to me speaks of hypocrisy.

If all were taken away and he was no longer given such a lavish lifestyle by that church...would he still do what he does? Would he actually go out and find a regular job/career to support his family, and ultimately his lavish lifestyle?

Is he really in it for the love of His word, or for the love of the easy money and carefree lifestyle.

I suppose I could preach a good sermon myself if it meant I got the life he does. I wouldn't do it, because personally I believe someone spreading His word, would do so for free.

Now... I would like to think not all 'mega churches' are like LWCC. However I am curious to know why all of them need such expensive equipment and surroundings. They seem to spend more money and time doing things that don't really help the community directly. Much of it seems very self-fulfilling and have very little outside effect. Which leads me to feel like most of these massive churches are really just a money-making scheme with a religious facade.

I have googled and read various online blogs and articles with the same kind of concerns I have. Even several investigations about all the 'goings on'.

Thoughts...?

[tailfins]

I'm undecided on your topic. The larger the SUCCESSFUL organization, the more skill required of its chief executive, thereby worthy of more compensation. A 7-10 million dollar building could serve the poor very well if used for showers, counseling, job workshops, soup kitchens, etc.

[Marcus Aurelius]

seems like they are helping the community...

http://www.lwcc.org/index.php?option...608&Itemid=171

http://www.cufi.org/site/PageNavigat...ectors_hammond

Today some of the outreaches that spring from Living Word include...

Maranatha Christian Academy, a fully-accredited, pre-K through 12th grade Christian school

Maranatha College, an evening and weekend college with an uncompromising Christian environment

Living Free Recovery Services, a state licensed outpatient treatment facility for chemical dependency

Club 3 Degrees, a cutting-edge Christian music club which is smoke/alcohol free

The Compassion Center, a multi-faceted outreach to inner-city residents

CFAITH, an online cooperative missionary outreach of hundreds of national and international organizations providing faith-based content and a nonprofit family oriented ISP

and a national and international media outreach that includes hundreds of audio/video teaching series, Winner’s Way broadcast, Prayer Notes publication, and Winner’s Way magazine.

[mundame]

I have googled and read various online blogs and articles with the same kind of concerns I have. Even several investigations about all the 'goings on'.

Thoughts...?

That's the part of your post that would worry me. So many of these megachurches have pastors who are doing wild sex orgies, sometimes homosexuality as we have read in the papers. If anything like that is going on, I would suggest not getting involved in such a church!!

As for the "take all you have and give it to the poor" part of your concern, the tension between great wealth and control versus lives of poverty and "leveling" (the communism that pops up every century or two because it IS in the Bible) has been going on since exactly 313 (Constantine) and that is an even 1700 years. So you can choose what you prefer; both systems can be defended. But if you are into leveling and giving as much as possible to the poor, you are not going to like a rich church that spends money like water for its facilities and staff, however long a history that may have within Christianity.

But the thing about cults -- and I think the megachurches are simply the latest installation of the cult phenomenon that is always, always with us forever -- is that they MUST have a charismatic cult leader who is very personable, sexy, controlling, and usually, frankly, into weird sex practices and a lot of it. That IS and always has been the norm, and it's why so many megachurch preachers fall from grace when their "goings-on" are discovered by a fascinated congregation.

The number of outed weirdos and con men in the evangelical/megachurch/television preacher contingent is so large that I would never get involved. My daughter and son-in-law go for the megachurches, and so far haven't gotten hurt. But you are saying you have a bad feeling about this megachurch. People know more than they know they know: I'd go with your gut feeling! It's tapping into something you don't have words for yet.

Interesting issue!

[PostmodernProphet]

there are lots of different churches.....I think mine is pretty nice......we have around 150 families that are members.....services are usually full.....we have an overflow room where some watch the service on a video screen.....we also broadcast the service live over the internet (been doing that for over ten years and were one of the first in the country to do so).....

a while back we made a decision to not expand the church building.....instead we bought an old hospital a few blocks away and turned it into a ministry center......now there are over fifty non-profits that operate out of it, including a food pantry, a health clinic, and a restaurant that lets people pay what they have for meals.....

we have a long history of people being involved in helping others......one boy who grew up in our church started a ministry called Kid's Hope USA which now operates in over thirty states......we were supporting an orphanage in Lesotho, Africa and when its founder retired a young family pulled up roots and moved to Africa to take over......we were also working with a poverty ministry in West Virginia and two families from the church moved there to work in that ministry.......

those are the big stories, but there are hundreds of little ones......a homeless girl and her baby living in the spare bedroom of a young family......a woman who met a crying Pakistani in the diaper aisle at the local store......found out that they had newborn twins, no family and his wife was ill.....within a day she had three shifts of volunteers providing 24 hour care for three weeks till the mother recovered.....a youth pastor providing counseling to a teenager who had killed his best friend with a knife while stoned out of his mind.....

I guess we qualify as a mega-church.....in size at least I've heard we are in the top 1% in the country......

a church isn't what you find it to be......a church is what you make it to be.....

[fj1200]

Anyway... why does this church just reek of hypocrisy? I see the size of the place... if you walk from one end to the other, it takes 10 minutes. Now they do have a school there, but still. I am told that their annual budget is $35 million. I can't imagine the cost of the overhead for heating/power/water, etc.

Then there is the fact that Mac Hammond drives a Porche Cayenne.

As my Sunday School leader said many wealthy church attendees/deacons don't like to be preached to by someone who makes considerably less than them or doesn't have the same station in life.

[mundame]

As my Sunday School leader said many wealthy church attendees/deacons don't like to be preached to by someone who makes considerably less than them or doesn't have the same station in life.

It's the classic split in the Church that has been going on for 1700 years. (Before the Emperor Constantine gave Christianity power and money and position and prestige, Christians were pretty much all poor, and persecuted right up through 311!)

It took a huge amount of money to build those huge, beautiful European cathedrals, to support the papacy for so many centuries in wealth and velvets and luxury. And they made a sort of empire of religion that replaced Rome to some extent, with all that use of money from churchgoers put to wealth and power.

But always in the shadows were the levellers, who remembered the commandment about taking ALL you have and giving it away.....and frequently, every century, they would break out, in heresies with many names, in religious wars, finally in the Reformation (which is heresy that won, like religions are cults that succeeded). The levellers have a slight edge right now, though not as much as two or three centuries ago when there were much stricter levellers like Puritans.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://joinus.campuscrusadeforchrist...w-his-example/

Paul was a tent maker. He didn’t ask for gifts. Shouldn’t I follow his example?

The apostle Paul writes in I Corinthians 9:14, “so also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.” He explains that God set up a system of financial support for His workers. He also writes that even though he had the right to be supported by the Corinthians, he chose to make tents. This was an exception, however, to Paul’s normal method of ministry.
Paul wanted to make sure that the Corinthians to whom he preached had no reason to question his motives. He chose to live on a smaller salary and take less from the Corinthians in order to validate his character, his faith and his ministry. With the Corinthian church Paul may have supplemented his income by sewing canvas, but he did rely on gifts from supporters.
Many times in the New Testament (Philippians 4:10- 16; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5) we see that the churches gave sacrificially to support Paul’s work. He commended them for their support and reminded them of the eternal profit of their gifts. “Not that I am looking for a gift, but I am looking for what may be credited to your account” (Philippians 4:17).
This great missionary willingly received financial support from other Christians and churches, and he asked for support. “When I go to Spain…I hope to have you assist me on my journey” (Romans 15:24). The original language in this verse confirms Paul’s request for money. John also made reference to support: “For they went out for the sake of the Name, accepting nothing from the Gentiles. Therefore we ought to support such men, so that we may be fellow workers with the truth” (3 John 7,8).
In examining Scripture it is clear that Paul was a support- raising missionary, and his part-time job in Corinth was a special exception to God’s financial plan for His full-time workers. The lifestyle of supported ministry that he was called to was little different than the models followed by both Levites of the Old Testament and Jesus Himself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, ministers can receive support for doing their work,
BUT WHEN I SEE A MINISTER LIVING A HIGH AND LAVISH LIFESTYLE FROM DOING THAT WORK I QUESTION WHERE HIS PRIORITIES TRULY ARE!
ITS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT WHERE YOU SEE THE VERY WEALTHY AND THE HOOTY TOOTY ARROGANT PEOPLE FLOCK TO AND FEEL SO COMFORTABLE AT IS NOT THE PLACE TO WORSHIP! AT LEAST FOR ME ITS NOT.
ANY MINISTER LIVING A RICH AND LUXURIOUS LIFESTYLE IS NOT IN MY OPINION TRUE TO HIS SUPPOSED FAITH! THEY DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE AS PAUPERS BUT NEITHER SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO LIVE AS WEALTHY ELITES IMHO..
A CHURCH CAN BE JUDGED BY ITS CONGREGATION AND BY ITS MINISTERS. -TYR

[tailfins]

http://joinus.campuscrusadeforchrist...w-his-example/

Paul was a tent maker. He didn’t ask for gifts. Shouldn’t I follow his example?

The apostle Paul writes in I Corinthians 9:14, “so also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.” He explains that God set up a system of financial support for His workers. He also writes that even though he had the right to be supported by the Corinthians, he chose to make tents. This was an exception, however, to Paul’s normal method of ministry.
Paul wanted to make sure that the Corinthians to whom he preached had no reason to question his motives. He chose to live on a smaller salary and take less from the Corinthians in order to validate his character, his faith and his ministry. With the Corinthian church Paul may have supplemented his income by sewing canvas, but he did rely on gifts from supporters.
Many times in the New Testament (Philippians 4:10- 16; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5) we see that the churches gave sacrificially to support Paul’s work. He commended them for their support and reminded them of the eternal profit of their gifts. “Not that I am looking for a gift, but I am looking for what may be credited to your account” (Philippians 4:17).
This great missionary willingly received financial support from other Christians and churches, and he asked for support. “When I go to Spain…I hope to have you assist me on my journey” (Romans 15:24). The original language in this verse confirms Paul’s request for money. John also made reference to support: “For they went out for the sake of the Name, accepting nothing from the Gentiles. Therefore we ought to support such men, so that we may be fellow workers with the truth” (3 John 7,8).
In examining Scripture it is clear that Paul was a support- raising missionary, and his part-time job in Corinth was a special exception to God’s financial plan for His full-time workers. The lifestyle of supported ministry that he was called to was little different than the models followed by both Levites of the Old Testament and Jesus Himself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, ministers can receive support for doing their work,
BUT WHEN I SEE A MINISTER LIVING A HIGH AND LAVISH LIFESTYLE FROM DOING THAT WORK I QUESTION WHERE HIS PRIORITIES TRULY ARE!
ITS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT WHERE YOU SEE THE VERY WEALTHY AND THE HOOTY TOOTY ARROGANT PEOPLE FLOCK TO AND FEEL SO COMFORTABLE AT IS NOT THE PLACE TO WORSHIP! AT LEAST FOR ME ITS NOT.
ANY MINISTER LIVING A RICH AND LUXURIOUS LIFESTYLE IS NOT IN MY OPINION TRUE TO HIS SUPPOSED FAITH! THEY DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE AS PAUPERS BUT NEITHER SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO LIVE AS WEALTHY ELITES IMHO..
A CHURCH CAN BE JUDGED BY ITS CONGREGATION AND BY ITS MINISTERS. -TYR

This church was part of my reason for leaving the South:

They are EXACTLY the type of church you speak of:
http://frbc.com/

[gabosaurus]

KK99, I think you are looking at the wrong things. The size or location of the church should not matter.
When my husband I looked for a church after moving to Huntington Beach from the Bay Area, I had a few qualifications. Mainly -- does the church speak to me? Does their philosophy and values mirror my own?

The church I attended in the Bay Area was located in a strip mall. The minister had another full time job. But his message spoke volumes, and the members were very devoted.
The church I attend now is larger. There are two pastors, a youth minister and a minister of music. It was recommended to me and I was impressed the first time I went. The lead pastor has a loud, commanding voice, and the service moves everyone. It is almost like a rock concert at time.
What I like best is the congregation. There are blacks, whites, Latinos and anyone who wants to wander in off the street. No offering plate is passed (the offering is taken in the foyer) and no one hawks their book.
I recommend attending a church that interests you and see how you are moved and how you are welcomed.

[mundame]

There are blacks, whites, Latinos and anyone who wants to wander in off the street. No offering plate is passed (the offering is taken in the foyer) and no one hawks their book.

No one hawks their book? I love it.


Blacks, latinos, anyone who wanders in off the street? Ho, boy. Sounds like Baltimore. I would pay money --- in a regular collection plate --- to avoid a church like that. Sounds like a prime mugger's hunting ground.

But I'm glad you found one that suits you.

[KitchenKitten99]

Yes, ministers can receive support for doing their work,
BUT WHEN I SEE A MINISTER LIVING A HIGH AND LAVISH LIFESTYLE FROM DOING THAT WORK I QUESTION WHERE HIS PRIORITIES TRULY ARE!
ITS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT WHERE YOU SEE THE VERY WEALTHY AND THE HOOTY TOOTY ARROGANT PEOPLE FLOCK TO AND FEEL SO COMFORTABLE AT IS NOT THE PLACE TO WORSHIP! AT LEAST FOR ME ITS NOT.
ANY MINISTER LIVING A RICH AND LUXURIOUS LIFESTYLE IS NOT IN MY OPINION TRUE TO HIS SUPPOSED FAITH! THEY DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE AS PAUPERS BUT NEITHER SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO LIVE AS WEALTHY ELITES IMHO..
A CHURCH CAN BE JUDGED BY ITS CONGREGATION AND BY ITS MINISTERS. -TYR

This is what I was trying to say.

I am not saying give all you have to others less fortunate. It is good to help others, yes, but no to the point where you then become impoverished.

I just see this guy living with a private jet, several luxury cars, and about 3-4 homes in various parts of the US and think it is morally wrong to profit off spreading His word.

If Mac Hammond actually had a regular career that he excelled at to live the lifestyle he does, and was a pastor/preacher on the side, I might see him differently.

He says he has a 'calling'... what, you mean a calling to be a soaker of over 50% of the church's annual budget?

To me, if one truly has a calling, that person would do it for free, if not far less than the 6-figures he gets paid plus the additional benefits of the church paying for the private jet and luxury homes. He and his wife, and I believe a few of their relatives make up the 'board' who decides what perks he gets.

He says God wants us to be Winners in all areas of life. The only winning I see, is his pocketbook getting filled by the suckers who buy his 'tithing' speeches every week so he can buy the newest model Porche.

Don't take this as being envious of what he has and that I don't have. There are plenty of people who walk through my shop doors who are millionaires several times over. I really don't care about stuff like that. I only see someone profiting off His word, and to me that seems very wrong. Why would I want to put more money in his pocket when there are plenty of other churches around who do even more work, and are just as effective, without the massive budget and the need for TV broadcasts weekly?

[mundame]

Whoa, I think you've answered your question, KK. You need a different church from that one. A very different church.

I agree with you. That one would creep me out, and I'm not even much of a leveller.

[KitchenKitten99]

Whoa, I think you've answered your question, KK. You need a different church from that one. A very different church.

I agree with you. That one would creep me out, and I'm not even much of a leveller.

I never really had a question on anything other than opinions of churches that have pastors like this.

I know I am looking at other places. One is a very nice and quaint little church. I am going to have to sit in for a service or two first but I like the location and their online blog shows a very active community.

[Robert A Whit]

I have been toying with the idea of going back to church. I am searching locally, and I think I have found a few I would like to visit.

Through this search, I have even looked at the mega-churches that I already know about, and have been to (mostly to see what makes them so popular). One I was member of until my grandmother passed away. I pretty much stopped going after her funeral there. Haven't set foot in the place since then, and that was 17 years ago. I have been in churches since then, just not that one. It is a fairly large church, but one of the smaller of the 'mega churches'. I don't really have an issue with that one in particular. I think it just feels part of my past life, and I don't ever really remembering liking it there. My grandmother did, which is why we went. I think after her funeral there... I also 'laid to rest' my desire to attend there. I was pretty angry with God for a while after that. Well, that and I really never felt a sense of belonging there to begin with. I always felt like an outsider.

There is another church locally, called the Living Word Christian Center. I guess the pastor, Mac Hammond, is pretty well known, even nationally.

I see this place and it is the size of two city blocks. Seriously. And they just expanded and added a flashy new LED sign that stands over the highway. There used to be someone's home that sat where that sign did. I watched them in the process of moving it a month or so ago, not realizing it was the church expanding.

Anyway... why does this church just reek of hypocrisy? I see the size of the place... if you walk from one end to the other, it takes 10 minutes. Now they do have a school there, but still. I am told that their annual budget is $35 million. I can't imagine the cost of the overhead for heating/power/water, etc.

Then there is the fact that Mac Hammond drives a Porche Cayenne. My husband used to attend this church with his ex-wife. Other than during school hours, the building is closed to the public most of the time. How is this supposed to make those seeking Him feel welcome?

Their new wing cost something around $7-10 million.

This 'church' is set in one of the lowest-income areas in the Twin Cities suburbs. It is riddled with crime and poverty.

They couldn't spend the $7-10 million on helping some of the people in the community?

To me, I see this Mac Hammond guy not really doing this for the love of His word and the desire to 'shepherd' the flock and bring those who seek Him in. I see this guy as profiting off His word. With multiple homes and even a private plane... this to me speaks of hypocrisy.

If all were taken away and he was no longer given such a lavish lifestyle by that church...would he still do what he does? Would he actually go out and find a regular job/career to support his family, and ultimately his lavish lifestyle?

Is he really in it for the love of His word, or for the love of the easy money and carefree lifestyle.

I suppose I could preach a good sermon myself if it meant I got the life he does. I wouldn't do it, because personally I believe someone spreading His word, would do so for free.

Now... I would like to think not all 'mega churches' are like LWCC. However I am curious to know why all of them need such expensive equipment and surroundings. They seem to spend more money and time doing things that don't really help the community directly. Much of it seems very self-fulfilling and have very little outside effect. Which leads me to feel like most of these massive churches are really just a money-making scheme with a religious facade.

I have googled and read various online blogs and articles with the same kind of concerns I have. Even several investigations about all the 'goings on'.

Thoughts...?

The LDS church is large enough to serve the local area. You will never be asked to put cash into any collection plate.
The churches are designed to fit the neighborhood and are not ostentatious.
You will not find a paid minister. The Bishop is paid nothing. If you want to make a lot of money by preaching, shun the Mormon Church.

Do you feel pressure once inside during services.

NO.

Is Sunday School handled during services?

NO

When one attends church, that time is for God and Jesus. It is their time. After services, then you can study doctrine, the Bible, the Book of Mormon, etc.

The church may be just what you seek.

Bear in mind, church is not entertainment. You won't find bands playing as you do in many Xtian churches. We call the church a Ward and if need be, more than one ward meets in the same building, staggered as to time of service.

Unlike some churches, you are not grilled to answer questions during church. Loud services are not part of the system. Check it out.