Jafar said this could never happen in Islamic courts...

[ConHog]

Absolutely nothing. Tailfins went off the plantation.

Good, it wasn't just me.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I don't need to take advice about my religion from a non Muslim who hates Islam in the first place.

The Shia are outside of Islam for many reasons which I have no need to discuss with someone who will reject my reasoning instantly and then resort to insults.

Translation: If someone doesn't agree with jahil, they are simply wrong.

I have shown multiple sources from Islam that disagree with your flawed idea that Shia is not part of Islam. The fact you choose to ignore them is telling.




http://insideislam.wisc.edu/2009/09/...r-just-muslim/

Since my family was of Sunni background, I was raised in that tradition. However, I was never taught to hate or harbor ill will towards the Shia. They were Muslims who shared much with Sunnis but had certain religious doctrines that we just agreed to disagree about.

Many people do not realize that the divide between Sunni and Shia (the two largest branches of Islam with several other groups resulting from this initial divide) was sparked initially by a political disagreement over who would succeed the Prophet Muhammad as the leader of the new Muslim community. It was not a fundamental rift in religious ideology. Those who were later to be called the Sunnis believed that he did not designate a successor and left it to the community to decide; while those who would later be called the Shia believed that Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, was chosen by the Prophet to succeed him. Early on, though, there weren’t any doctrinal differences. Over time, this split developed and eventually there arose some points of religious disagreement.

: the belief in the absolute oneness of God, the Prophet Muhammad, the pillars of Islam, and the Qur’an.

the Shia will look to the Imams, descendants of the Prophet, for guidance while Sunnis look to the scholars, the Ulama, without regard to lineage.

One example of an attempt towards unity is the Amman Message, in which scholars from both groups came together in 2004 to write a resolution that stated that followers of the four Sunni schools of thought and the two Shia schools are all Muslims.

They specifically recognized the validity of all 8 Mathhabs (legal schools) of Sunni, Shi'a and Ibadhi Islam; of traditional Islamic Theology (Ash'arism); of Islamic Mysticism (Sufism), and of true Salafi thought, and came to a precise definition of who is a Muslim.

[ConHog]

Translation: If someone doesn't agree with jahil, they are simply wrong.

I have shown multiple sources from Islam that disagree with your flawed idea that Shia is not part of Islam. The fact you choose to ignore them is telling.




http://insideislam.wisc.edu/2009/09/...r-just-muslim/

Isn't Jafar a Sunni?

[Marcus Aurelius]

Isn't Jafar a Sunni?

I believe so. And I have posted multiple Sunni based opinions that Shia IS indeed part of Islam. Jahil ignores them because it doesn't fit his world view.

[ConHog]

I believe so. And I have posted multiple Sunni based opinions that Shia IS indeed part of Islam. Jahil ignores them because it doesn't fit his world view.

because SOME Sunni's are more strict in their interpretation than others.

It's really no different than say a Christian argument about whether musical accompaniment is okay in church. Some sects say it is, some sects say it isn't. Some of those who say it isn't don't believe you're a real Christian if you think it's okay.


Either way , there is no factual answer. So hammering a guy claiming there is is in fact ridiculous.

I swear some of you REALLY need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

I believe so. And I have posted multiple Sunni based opinions that Shia IS indeed part of Islam. Jahil ignores them because it doesn't fit his world view.

because SOME Sunni's are more strict in their interpretation than others.

It's really no different than say a Christian argument about whether musical accompaniment is okay in church. Some sects say it is, some sects say it isn't. Some of those who say it isn't don't believe you're a real Christian if you think it's okay.


Either way , there is no factual answer. So hammering a guy claiming there is is in fact ridiculous.

I swear some of you REALLY need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

Your analogy is flawed.

If Roman Catholics said Presbyterians were not really Christians because they have different core beliefs, THAT would be the same as Jahil saying Shia are not really Islam because they have different core beliefs.

[Little-Acorn]

Jafar said this....


Why are so many threads in this forum, about jafar?

You're supposed to ignore trolls, not publicize them.

.

[ConHog]

Your analogy is flawed.

If Roman Catholics said Presbyterians were not really Christians because they have different core beliefs, THAT would be the same as Jahil saying Shia are not really Islam because they have different core beliefs.

Okay, either way my point stands. Jafar may actually believe that Shia aren't Muslims, MANY Sunnis do, and some don't look at it that way.

[tailfins]

I'm pretty sure some firms would be okay with the government entirely taking over an industry also. As long as they benefited.


BUT, I have to wonder what being Musim has to do with being a socialist. I mean are capitalists not allowed in the Mosque?

I have always thought of Islam as a conservative religion. Seeing one of them side with socialism (an Athiest philosophy) is puzzling.

[ConHog]

I have always thought of Islam as a conservative religion. Seeing one of them side with socialism (an Athiest philosophy) is puzzling.

do not confuse backwards with conservative my friend.

[jafar00]

I'm pretty sure some firms would be okay with the government entirely taking over an industry also. As long as they benefited.


BUT, I have to wonder what being Musim has to do with being a socialist. I mean are capitalists not allowed in the Mosque?

Capitalism is ok in Islam. There are rules for doing business in a Halal way. Where your profits come from, how they are used etc....

Socialism is compatible with Islam especially for the fact that the poor are looked after with Zakat (charity) the way the Qur'aan condemns those who hoard their wealth instead of spending it in way that benefits the community as a whole. However becoming much richer than others is fine. You just need to spend some of it to help those who are less fortunate along the way.

Isn't Jafar a Sunni?

Yes.

Jafar said this....


Why are so many threads in this forum, about jafar?

You're supposed to ignore trolls, not publicize them.

.

I dunno. They love me I guess. The ones I have on ignore are there because of the way they just insult me and follow me around just to insult me because I am the token Muslim around here. And they HATE everything Islam. I'm not here to be insulted. I'm here to discuss things in a friendly way.

This is just a forum after all.

[tailfins]

Capitalism is ok in Islam. There are rules for doing business in a Halal way. Where your profits come from, how they are used etc....

Socialism is compatible with Islam especially for the fact that the poor are looked after with Zakat (charity) the way the Qur'aan condemns those who hoard their wealth instead of spending it in way that benefits the community as a whole. However becoming much richer than others is fine. You just need to spend some of it to help those who are less fortunate along the way.

I don't see how politically aligning with an Atheist ideology (Socialism) and secularists can be compatible with Islam. I have been slow to condemn Islam because I thought it was somewhat compatible with Christian conservatism. Perhaps I was mistaken.

[jafar00]

I don't see how politically aligning with an Atheist ideology (Socialism) and secularists can be compatible with Islam. I have been slow to condemn Islam because I thought it was somewhat compatible with Christian conservatism. Perhaps I was mistaken.

I can't see how looking after the poor can be frowned upon. Surely that is compatible with Christian values?

[Marcus Aurelius]

I can't see how looking after the poor can be frowned upon. Surely that is compatible with Christian values?

It's the part where government wants to FORCE us to look after the poor that is frowned upon, Jahil. It should be our choice, not imposed from on high (federal government).

[tailfins]

It's the part where government wants to FORCE us to look after the poor that is frowned upon, Jahil. It should be our choice, not imposed from on high (federal government).

Furthermore you are putting the state into God's and the church's proper role. The state becomes God. Collectivist ideology clearly states that it is Atheist as well.