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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Nothing will happen here. The media is already working overtime walking Obamas tough rhetoric back. China and Russia will block any attempts to use force by the UN and Obama will not do anything without the UN and with negative public opinion about going to war higher than any other US engagement.

    Like the IRS scandal and Benghazi; nothing to see here folks. Move along.
    A lot of reasons to think that is how it will go down. However if Obama's masters tell him to ignore all and fire those missiles then those missiles will get sent come hell or high water! By the way welcome to the board. Are you American?
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post






    Got facts? Never mind, people who make cartoonish posts from leftist or Libertarian blogs seldom deal in them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    A lot of reasons to think that is how it will go down. However if Obama's masters tell him to ignore all and fire those missiles then those missiles will get sent come hell or high water! By the way welcome to the board. Are you American?
    I am American; live in Ventura CA surrounded by loony liberals but the weather is great and I'm close to wine country which allows me to put up with all the Liberal buffoonery here.

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    Consider this.... http://news.yahoo.com/syria-says-ter...125634470.html Syria says 'terrorists' will strike Europe with chemical weapon


    Edit content preferences <button class="done-btn" data-rapid_p="6">Done</button>


    <cite class="byline vcard top-line"><abbr>1 hour ago</abbr> </cite>
    DAMASCUS (Reuters) - Syria's deputy foreign minister said on Wednesday that the United States, Britain and France helped "terrorists" use chemical weapons in Syria, and that the same groups would soon use them against Europe.
    Speaking to reporters outside the Four Seasons hotel in Damascus, Faisal Maqdad said he had presented U.N. chemical weapons inspectors with evidence that "armed terrorist groups" had used sarin gas in all the sites of alleged attacks.
    "We repeat that the terrorist groups are the ones that used (chemical weapons) with the help of the United States, the United Kingdom and France, and this has to stop," he said. "This means these chemical weapons will soon be used by the same groups against the people of Europe," he added.
    (Reporting by Marwan Makdesi; Writing by Oliver Holmes; Editing by Jon Boyle)
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    I'm curious if this counts as "proof". They should immediately release this information to the UN and all other parties as said proof. Even then, will it be enough? Could it be fake? Will anyone in Syria take credit? Can they narrow it down to WHO said it?

    Exclusive: Intercepted Calls Prove Syrian Army Used Nerve Gas, U.S. Spies Say

    Last Wednesday, in the hours after a horrific chemical attack east of Damascus, an official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense exchanged panicked phone calls with a leader of a chemical weapons unit, demanding answers for a nerve agent strike that killed more than 1,000 people. Those conversations were overheard by U.S. intelligence services, The Cable has learned. And that is the major reason why American officials now say they're certain that the attacks were the work of the Bashar al-Assad regime -- and why the U.S. military is likely to attack that regime in a matter of days.

    But the intercept raises questions about culpability for the chemical massacre, even as it answers others: Was the attack on Aug. 21 the work of a Syrian officer overstepping his bounds? Or was the strike explicitly directed by senior members of the Assad regime? "It's unclear where control lies," one U.S. intelligence official told The Cable. "Is there just some sort of general blessing to use these things? Or are there explicit orders for each attack?"

    Nor are U.S. analysts sure of the Syrian military's rationale for launching the strike -- if it had a rationale at all. Perhaps it was a lone general putting a long-standing battle plan in motion; perhaps it was a miscalculation by the Assad government. Whatever the reason, the attack has triggered worldwide outrage, and put the Obama administration on the brink of launching a strike of its own in Syria. "We don't know exactly why it happened," the intelligence official added. "We just know it was pretty fucking stupid."

    American intelligence analysts are certain that chemical weapons were used on Aug. 21 -- the captured phone calls, combined with local doctors' accounts and video documentation of the tragedy -- are considered proof positive. That is why the U.S. government, from the president on down, has been unequivocal in its declarations that the Syrian military gassed thousands of civilians in the East Ghouta region.

    However, U.S. spy services still have not acquired the evidence traditionally considered to be the gold standard in chemical weapons cases: soil, blood, and other environmental samples that test positive for reactions with nerve agent. That's the kind of proof that America and its allies processed from earlier, small-scale attacks that the White House described in equivocal tones, and declined to muster a military response to in retaliation.

    Rest here - http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...used_nerve_gas
    Come on Jim, the NSA just collects metadata.
    He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.AeschylusRead more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...zeMUwcpY1Io.99

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by logroller View Post
    Come on Jim, the NSA just collects metadata.
    godzilla.JPG

  7. #52
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    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Dj4axZvzl_s?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>


    Who is more deaf to global public opinion - Obama or Assad? Answer: Obama. Sources of photos: AP and Reuters.
    First, the U.N. official. Her name isCarla del Ponte, the "former Chief Prosecutor of two United Nations international criminal law tribunals" (Wikipedia). She's an attorney general from Switzerland, so you know she's neutral.

    Read the excerpt below from the article, "Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad’s regime: U.N. official" by Shaun Waterman, published in The Washington Times on Monday, May 6, 2013:
    Testimony from victims strongly suggests it was the rebels, not the Syrian government, that used Sarin nerve gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior U.N. diplomat said Monday.

    Carla del Ponte, a member of the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were “strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels seeking to oust Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad had used the nerve agent.

    But she said her panel had not yet seen any evidence of Syrian government forces using chemical weapons, according to the BBC, but she added that more investigation was needed.

    Damascus has recently facing growing Western accusations that its forces used such weapons, which President Obama has described as crossing a red line. But Ms. del Ponte’s remarks may serve to shift the focus of international concern.
    The same false allegations against Assad that were flying around back in May were bound to resurface late in the summer. So the date of the article in no way diminishes its value as far as enlightening the world about who actually is willing and has the means to carry out a chemical weapons attack against Syrian civilians.

    The Saudi-Turkish-Qatari-French-British-USraeli backed Al-Qaeda terrorists have everything to gain by framing Assad because they are currently losing the war and would see their fortunes reversed at least somewhat if the U.S. attacks Syria.

    Saleh Muslim, Syria's main Kurdish leader, says that Assad would be stupid to use chemical weapons against his own people in front of the eyes of the world.

    The Al-Qaeda terrorists are the most likely culprits, if in fact there is proof that chemical weapons have been used in Syria.

    Read the excerpt below from the article, "Syrian Kurdish leader says Assad not to blame for attack" by Alexandra Hudson, published by Reuters on Monday, August 26, 2013:
    Syrian President Bashar al-Assad would not be "so stupid" as to use chemical weapons close to Damascus, the leader of the country's largest Kurdish group said.

    Saleh Muslim, head of the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD), said he doubted the Syrian president would resort to using such weapons when he felt he had the upper hand in the country's civil war.

    He suggested last Wednesday's attack, which the opposition says was carried out by government forces and killed hundreds of people, was aimed at framing Assad and provoking an international reaction. Assad has denied his forces used chemical weapons.

    "The regime in Syria ... has chemical weapons, but they wouldn't use them around Damascus, 5 km from the (U.N.) committee which is investigating chemical weapons. Of course they are not so stupid as to do so," Muslim told Reuters.

    At the time of the incident, U.N. experts were already in Syria to investigate three previous alleged chemical attacks dating from months ago.

    http://www.blacklistednews.com/U.N._...38/38/Y/M.html
    ................................


    http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/1...ttack-on-syria

    Secretary of State John Kerry assured the public that the Obama administration's summary of the intelligence on which it is basing the case for military action to punish the Assad regime for an alleged use of chemical weapons was put together with an acute awareness of the fiasco of the 2002 Iraq WMD intelligence estimate.
    Nevertheless, the unclassified summary of the intelligence assessment made public August 30, 2013, utilizes misleading language evocative of the infamous Iraq estimate's deceptive phrasing. The summary cites signals, geospatial and human source intelligence that purportedly show that the Syrian government prepared, carried out and "confirmed" a chemical weapons attack on August 21. And it claims visual evidence "consistent with" a nerve gas attack.
    But a careful examination of those claims reveals a series of convolutedly worded characterizations of the intelligence that don't really mean what they appear to say at first glance.
    The document displays multiple indications that the integrity of the assessment process was seriously compromised by using language that distorted the intelligence in ways that would justify an attack on Syria.
    Spinning the Secret Intelligence
    .....

    listen to EXetremly informative interview here
    http://scotthorton.org/2013/09/04/9413-gareth-porter/
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-15-2013 at 09:00 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  8. #53
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    Assad did not order Syria chemical weapons attack, says German press

    Bild am Sonntag cites high-level German surveillance source suggesting Syrian president was not personally behind attacks



    • Simon Tisdall and Josie Le Blond in Berlin
    • The Guardian, <time itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2013-09-08" pubdate="">Sunday 8 September 2013</time>

    President Bashar al-Assad did not personally order last month's chemical weapons attack near Damascus that has triggered calls for US military intervention, and blocked numerous requests from his military commanders to use chemical weapons against regime opponents in recent months, a German newspaper has reported , citing unidentified, high-level national security sources.
    The intelligence findings were based on phone calls intercepted by a German surveillance ship operated by the BND, the German intelligence service, and deployed off the Syrian coast, Bild am Sonntag said. The intercepted communications suggested Assad, who is accused of war crimes by the west, including foreign secretary William Hague, was not himself involved in last month's attack or in other instances when government forces have allegedly used chemical weapons.
    Assad sought to exonerate himself from the August attack in which hundreds died. "There has been no evidence that I used chemical weapons against my own people," he said in an interview with CBS.
    But the intercepts tended to add weight to the claims of the Obama administration and Britain and France that elements of the Assad regime, and not renegade rebel groups, were responsible for the attack in the suburb of Ghouta, Bild said....

    with all of the reports and counter reports, it seems NO ONE should jump to conclutions about the the reported chemical attacks.

    only an idiot would go to war or support one side over another with the sketchy info that's available over this.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  9. #54
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    MEMORANDUM FOR: The President
    FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)

    SUBJECT: Is Syria a Trap?

    Precedence: IMMEDIATE
    We regret to inform you that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as “plausible denial.”...

    Our sources confirm that a chemical incident of some sort did cause fatalities and injuries on August 21 in a suburb of Damascus. They insist, however, that the incident was not the result of an attack by the Syrian Army using military-grade chemical weapons from its arsenal. That is the most salient fact, according to CIA officers working on the Syria issue. ... And that goes, as well, for his titular boss, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who has admitted he gave “clearly erroneous” sworn testimony to Congress denying NSA eavesdropping on Americans....


    Our sources confirm that a chemical incident of some sort did cause fatalities and injuries on August 21 in a suburb of Damascus. They insist, however, that the incident was not the result of an attack by the Syrian Army using military-grade chemical weapons from its arsenal. That is the most salient fact, according to CIA officers working on the Syria issue. They tell us that CIA Director John Brennan is perpetrating a pre-Iraq-War-type fraud on members of Congress, the media, the public – and perhaps even you.

    We have observed John Brennan closely over recent years and, sadly, we find what our former colleagues are now telling us easy to believe. Sadder still, this goes in spades for those of us who have worked with him personally; we give him zero credence. And that goes, as well, for his titular boss, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who has admitted he gave “clearly erroneous” sworn testimony to Congress denying NSA eavesdropping on Americans....

    http://consortiumnews.com/2013/09/06...-syrian-intel/




    Former CIA, State Dept Intel Analyst, Dept Director on anti-terrorism ... (R) , says his CIA contacts tell him...
    Obama and Kerry Are Lying About Syria
    By Larry Johnson on September 5, 2013 at 1:03 PM in Current Affairs
    Barack Obama and John Kerry are lying about what has happened in Syria.


    ...My friends in the CIA are still around and they are now warning me that both the United States and the United Kingdom know that Bashir Assad is not responsible for the incident on 21 August that killed and maimed Syrian civilians. While it is true that a chemical of some sort caused the fatalities and injuries, it was not the result of an attack by the Syrian Army using military quality chemical weapons from the Syrian arsenal. The CIA knows that this is the case yet, with John Brennan at the head of the Agency, is deliberately lying and misleading members of Congress, the media and the public.

    As I noted in an earlier piece, this was a pre-planned effort by the rebels to create an incident that would bring the United States into the war.
    It was prepared in collaboration with the Saudis and the Turks. The canisters containing the chemical agent were opened and people in the immediate vicinity were affected. Some died and some suffered physical injuries.

    Important to note that no single Syrian military rocket capable of carrying a chemical agent has been recovered from the area. Not a single shred of physical evidence exists to support the claim that this was a result of a strike by a Syrian military unit with expertise in Chemical weapons. And, there still is no medical evidence backing up the specious claim by Kerry and Obama that this was sarin.

    I personally call on President Putin and other leaders at the G-20 to hold Obama to account and to demand proof. Obama cannot supply it. He is lying. He is being aided in this deceit by David Cameron, the British Prime Minister. If the United States proceeds to carry out a military strike on Syria it will be committing the same kind of crime committed by Adolf Hitler in launching an unprovoked and unwarranted attack on Poland in 1939. The stakes are this high and the United States must be stopped from committing war crimes against the government and people of Syria.
    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/763...g-about-syria/

    interview with reporter on above and more...
    http://scotthorton.org/2013/09/08/9813-gareth-porter/
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-15-2013 at 04:37 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  10. #55
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    Congress Members Who Have Seen Classified Evidence About Syria Say It Fails to Prove Anything

    Posted on September 7, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog
    Classified Syria Intelligence Fails to Prove Assad Used Chemical Weapons

    The administration’s public case for chemical weapons use by the Syrian government is extremely weak, and former high-level intelligence officers say that publicly-available information proves that the Syrian government likely did not carry out the chemical weapons attacks.
    The Obama administration claims that classified intelligence proves that it was the Assad government which carried out the attacks.
    But numerous congressional members who have seen the classified intelligence information say that it is no better than the public war brief … and doesn’t prove anything.
    Congressman Justin Amash said last week:
    What I heard in Obama admn briefing actually makes me more skeptical of certain significant aspects of Pres’s case for attacking
    He noted yesterday, after attending another classified briefing and reviewing more classified materials:
    Attended another classified briefing on #Syria & reviewed add’l materials. Now more skeptical than ever. Can’t believe Pres is pushing war.
    And today, Amash wrote:
    If Americans could read classified docs, they’d be even more against #Syria action. Obama admn’s public statements are misleading at best.
    Congressman Tom Harkin said:
    I have just attended a classified Congressional briefing on Syria that quite frankly raised more questions than it answered. I found the evidence presented by Administration officials to be circumstantial.
    Congressman Michael Burgess said:
    Yes, I saw the classified documents. They were pretty thin.
    Yahoo News reports:
    New Hampshire Democratic Rep. Carol Shea-Porter, for instance, left Thursday’s classified hearing and said she was opposed to the effort “now so more than ever.”
    “I think there’s a long way to go for the president to make the case,” she said after the briefing. “It does seem there is a high degree of concern and leaning no.”
    Senator Joe Manchin announced he was voting “no” for a Syria strike right after hearing a classified intelligence brieifng.
    Congressman Alan Grayson points out in the New York Times:
    The documentary record regarding an attack on Syria consists of just two papers: a four-page unclassified summary and a 12-page classified summary. The first enumerates only the evidence in favor of an attack. I’m not allowed to tell you what’s in the classified summary, but you can draw your own conclusion. [I.e. it was no more impressive than the 4-page public version.]
    On Thursday I asked the House Intelligence Committee staff whether there was any other documentation available, classified or unclassified. Their answer was “no.”
    The Syria chemical weapons summaries are based on several hundred underlying elements of intelligence information. The unclassified summary cites intercepted telephone calls, “social media” postings and the like, but not one of these is actually quoted or attached — not even clips from YouTube. (As to whether the classified summary is the same, I couldn’t possibly comment, but again, draw your own conclusion.)
    ***
    And yet we members are supposed to accept, without question, that the proponents of a strike on Syria have accurately depicted the underlying evidence, even though the proponents refuse to show any of it to us or to the American public....
    more
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-15-2013 at 11:25 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  11. #56
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    Medical Experts Doubt Syrian Chemical Weapons Claims

    Posted on August 24, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog
    Preliminary Evidence Indicates that the Syrian Government Did NOT Launch a Chemical Weapon Attack Against Its People

    CBS News reports that the U.S. is finalizing plans for war against Syria – and positioning ships to launch cruise missiles against the Syrian government – based on the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people.
    The last time the U.S. blamed the Syrian government for a chemical weapons attack, that claim was was debunked.
    But is the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons against its people true this time?
    It’s not surprising that Syria’s close ally – Russia – is expressing doubt. Agence France-Presse (AFP) notes:
    Russia, which has previously said it has proof of chemical weapons use by the rebels, expressed deep scepticism about the opposition’s claims.
    The foreign ministry said the timing of the allegations as UN inspectors began their work “makes us think that we are once again dealing with a premeditated provocation.”
    But Russia isn’t the only doubter.
    AFP reports:
    “At the moment, I am not totally convinced because the people that are helping them are without any protective clothing and without any respirators,” said Paula Vanninen, director of Verifin, the Finnish Institute for Verification of the Chemical Weapons Convention.
    “In a real case, they would also be contaminated and would also be having symptoms.”
    John Hart, head of the Chemical and Biological Security Project at Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said he had not seen the telltale evidence in the eyes of the victims that would be compelling evidence of chemical weapons use.
    “Of the videos that I’ve seen for the last few hours, none of them show pinpoint pupils… this would indicate exposure to organophosphorus nerve agents,” he said.
    Gwyn Winfield, editor of CBRNe World magazine, which specialises in chemical weapons issues, said the evidence did not suggest that the chemicals used were of the weapons-grade that the Syrian army possesses in its stockpiles.
    “We’re not seeing reports that doctors and nurses… are becoming fatalities, so that would suggest that the toxicity of it isn’t what we would consider military sarin. It may well be that it is a lower-grade,” Winfield told AFP.
    Haaretz reports:
    Western experts on chemical warfare who have examined at least part of the footage are skeptical that weapons-grade chemical substances were used, although they all emphasize that serious conclusions cannot be reached without thorough on-site examination.
    Dan Kaszeta, a former officer of the U.S. Army’s Chemical Corps and a leading private consultant, pointed out a number of details absent from the footage so far: “None of the people treating the casualties or photographing them are wearing any sort of chemical-warfare protective gear,” he says, “and despite that, none of them seem to be harmed.” This would seem to rule out most types of military-grade chemical weapons, including the vast majority of nerve gases, since these substances would not evaporate immediately, especially if they were used in sufficient quantities to kill hundreds of people, but rather leave a level of contamination on clothes and bodies which would harm anyone coming in unprotected contact with them in the hours after an attack. In addition, he says that “there are none of the other signs you would expect to see in the aftermath of a chemical attack, such as intermediate levels of casualties, severe visual problems, vomiting and loss of bowel control.”
    Steve Johnson, a leading researcher on the effects of hazardous material exposure at England’s Cranfield University who has worked with Britain’s Ministry of Defense on chemical warfare issues, agrees that “from the details we have seen so far, a large number of casualties over a wide area would mean quite a pervasive dispersal. With that level of chemical agent, you would expect to see a lot of contamination on the casualties coming in, and it would affect those treating them who are not properly protected. We are not seeing that here.”
    Additional questions also remain unanswered, especially regarding the timing of the attack, being that it occurred on the exact same day that a team of UN inspectors was in Damascus to investigate earlier claims of chemical weapons use. It is also unclear what tactical goal the Syrian army would have been trying to achieve, when over the last few weeks it has managed to push back the rebels who were encroaching on central areas of the capital. But if this was not a chemical weapons attack, what then caused the deaths of so many people without any external signs of trauma?
    ***
    The Syrian rebels (and perhaps other players in the region) have a clear interest in presenting this as the largest chemical attack by the army loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad to date, even if the cause was otherwise, especially while the UN inspectors are in the country. It is also in their interest to do so whilst U.S. President Barack Obama remains reluctant to commit any military support to the rebels, when only the crossing of a “red line” could convince him to change his policy.
    The rebels and the doctors on the scene may indeed believe that chemical weapons were used, since they fear such an attack, but they may not have the necessary knowledge and means to make such a diagnosis. The European Union demanded Wednesday that the UN inspectors be granted access to the new sites of alleged chemical attacks, but since this is not within the team’s mandate, it is unlikely that the Syrian government will do so.
    Stephen Johnson, an expert in weapons and chemical explosives at Cranfield Forensic Institute, said that the video footage looked suspect:
    There are, within some of the videos, examples which seem a little hyper-real, and almost as if they’ve been set up. Which is not to say that they are fake but it does cause some concern. Some of the people with foaming, the foam seems to be too white, too pure, and not consistent with the sort of internal injury you might expect to see, which you’d expect to be bloodier or yellower.
    Chemical and biological weapons researcher Jean Pascal Zanders said that the footage appears to show victims of asphyxiation, which is not consistent with the use of mustard gas or the nerve agents VX or sarin:
    I’m deliberately not using the term chemical weapons here,” he said, adding that the use of “industrial toxicants” was a more likely explanation.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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