West Point men become first to marry at academy

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Is liberty unconstitutional?

If butt banging other guys is liberty so is having as many wives as you want, masturbating in public , having sex with an animal, etc. Complete Liberty always results in complete chaos and a free for all that allows for no organized society and no true civilization. Yes, its just that simple. How about my liberty to not pay taxes? To not pay traffic tickets, etc.. I think you and I each have a far different definition of liberty. Care to tell me yours?--Tyr

[Larrymc]

I think you need to discern a bit more between "fabricated rights," i.e. government benefits or privileges, and actual Constitutional rights. Of the latter there aren't too many. If you accept the DoI as law then we have life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness but if you don't then at least life, liberty, and property are mentioned in the Constitution along with the others codified in the BoR... which I probably don't need to list. I'll agree with you that discrimination laws are taken too far and are never really looked at to see if they are a good idea or if they were actually effective in what they were trying to do but when you have some who fight tooth and nail to affirm privileges granted to them, via the current definition of marriage in most states, you shouldn't be too surprised when gays fight tooth and nail for privileges to same. I was discussing ENDA with a friend on another forum and his support came down to, my paraphrase, that "it's the nice thing to do and if even one is discriminated against then it's bad" with no willingness to truly measure the effectiveness of the Civil Rights Act and Title VII.

One can't, IMO, square their support for the Constitution AND their support for laws that codify discrimination and unequal protection. You can be against the gay lifestyle but still acknowledge that the government is not a vehicle for mandating morality on the basis of "majority acceptance." Personally I think that all of the hysteria against gays is ultimately counterproductive, declare that they are deviant and that they won't be accepted by churches and religion in general and don't be surprised when someone acts as a deviant and rejects church and religion.

Don't know if you seen this, another post, sorry for the copy paste but we've beat this horse to death,
Being in America they are free to be Gay, even that was illegal until recent time, but when they start fighting to Fabricate a New Class Of People is where there's a problem, we have laws to protect against discrimination based on Ethnicity, Race, Gender and Religion, and now we're supposed to make a whole new set of laws and Traditions to suit a Deviant Sexual Behavior that for most of our History was illegal, and still unaccepted by the Majority, All under the guise of Progression and Modernization, when in truth we are going backward, as this is not new, other Society's in History have embraced Sexual Deviants, of course they are in History not one has lasted. and as we progress, the Pedophiles have started their fight, embolden by the Homosexual movement they now form groups without fear, and have began to insist that children can make such decisions as weather they are attracted to adults, and why not they are mature enough to decide they are attracted to same sex, all that is needed is to abolish this silly notion that kids are immature and don't know what type of sex they like. This is common sense to most who can see where this is going, the ones you and Arbo claim or ignorant, but your persistent defense of such behavior, IMO makes clear who is truly ignorant.

[logroller]

If butt banging other guys is liberty so is having as many wives as you want, masturbating in public , having sex with an animal, etc. Complete Liberty always results in complete chaos and a free for all that allows for no organized society and no true civilization. Yes, its just that simple. How about my liberty to not pay taxes? To not pay traffic tickets, etc.. I think you and I each have a far different definition of liberty. Care to tell me yours?--Tyr

How many wives have you had? dont get me wrong, I trust you made the right decision for yourself but how rapidly your hyperbolic example leaves you on shaky ground.

But yes, you have the liberty to do all those things...alas there are consequences. Such is the natural state in which we exist between order and chaos-- never is it all one or the other, even in a vacuum. Such a pure state is illusory. We invent it to make ourselves feel better because the knowledge of good and evil is a bitter fruit.

The thing I wonder, what if there is no good nor evil, things just are perceived as better or worse, and we take comfort in assuaging our shortcomings by perceiving others' actions being worse than our own ("they're evil") and, conversely manifesting our own ego as better ("I'm good") ???

IMO, liberty: a state in which action can be freely taken by an agent.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How many wives have you had? dont get me wrong, I trust you made the right decision for yourself but how rapidly your hyperbolic example leaves you on shaky ground.

But yes, you have the liberty to do all those things...alas there are consequences. Such is the natural state in which we exist between order and chaos-- never is it all one or the other, even in a vacuum. Such a pure state is illusory. We invent it to make ourselves feel better because the knowledge of good and evil is a bitter fruit.

The thing I wonder, what if there is no good nor evil, things just are perceived as better or worse, and we take comfort in assuaging our shortcomings by perceiving others' actions being worse than our own ("they're evil") and, conversely manifesting our own ego as better ("I'm good") ???

IMO, liberty: a state in which action can be freely taken by an agent.

Yet the gays want the consequences removed by the State. And to do that the State must force us to tolerate their behavior and alter out traditions--example= marriage being between a male and a female. We that say the agent--(The State) is not free to destroy our beliefs by force of law or any other way. That was exactly what the Founders based this nation upon and why they fought for Independence. It damn sure wasn't so two guys could go about butt banging and promoting their deviant lifestyle. --Tyr

[Larrymc]

Yet the gays want the consequences removed by the State. And to do that the State must force us to tolerate their behavior and alter out traditions--example= marriage being between a male and a female. We that say the agent--(The State) is not free to destroy our beliefs by force of law or any other way. That was exactly what the Founders based this nation upon and why they fought for Independence. It damn sure wasn't so two guys could go about butt banging and promoting their deviant lifestyle. --Tyr

I fell the same way Tyr, I see the Homosexual Agenda the same as Islam, as an American you are free to worship who and how you please, but don't start trying changing 200 years of our Traditions and Laws to suit you.

[fj1200]

Don't know if you seen this, another post, sorry for the copy paste but we've beat this horse to death,
...

Uh, yeah. That's the exact post to which I replied. Don't want to get in the way of your "horse" beating though.

I fell the same way Tyr, I see the Homosexual Agenda the same as Islam, as an American you are free to worship who and how you please, but don't start trying changing 200 years of our Traditions and Laws to suit you.

So screw the Constitution and huzzah for using government to reinforce my preference at the expense of others. Sweet!

[fj1200]

If butt banging other guys is liberty so is having as many wives as you want, masturbating in public , having sex with an animal, etc. Complete Liberty always results in complete chaos and a free for all that allows for no organized society and no true civilization. Yes, its just that simple. How about my liberty to not pay taxes? To not pay traffic tickets, etc.. I think you and I each have a far different definition of liberty. Care to tell me yours?--Tyr

Um, no. It looks like you dropped the necrophilia meme... unless that one was wrapped up in "etc." My definition of liberty is freedom from someone else using government to further their agenda. Besides, there is never "complete liberty" so I reject your strawman.

Yet the gays want the consequences removed by the State. And to do that the State must force us to tolerate their behavior and alter out traditions--example= marriage being between a male and a female. We that say the agent--(The State) is not free to destroy our beliefs by force of law or any other way. That was exactly what the Founders based this nation upon and why they fought for Independence. It damn sure wasn't so two guys could go about butt banging and promoting their deviant lifestyle. --Tyr

What consequences do they want removed? And right, the State is not free to destroy your beliefs.

[Larrymc]

Uh, yeah. That's the exact post to which I replied. Don't want to get in the way of your "horse" beating though.



So screw the Constitution and huzzah for using government to reinforce my preference at the expense of others. Sweet!

Your right I pasted the wrong one Sorry. there is another one i intended, but it doesn't matter, your simple Liberal Mind Can not Comprehend Common sense, or the idea there is a right and a wrong, and there for can't fathom, that something you desire could possibly be wrong.so like others here, I see your desperation to normalize Homosexuality, which lead me to believe you are Gay, its OK, but please stop trying to justify your sexual preference, don't worry you self about impeding my horse beating im done, but if you would like to enlighten your self with more of my wisdom fell free to back search this thread,

[Arbo]

I saw that two of the members here made it on TV with Russell Brand. Which users are these? Stand up and claim yourself.

[logroller]

Yet the gays want the consequences removed by the State. And to do that the State must force us to tolerate their behavior and alter out traditions--example= marriage being between a male and a female. We that say the agent--(The State) is not free to destroy our beliefs by force of law or any other way. That was exactly what the Founders based this nation upon and why they fought for Independence. It damn sure wasn't so two guys could go about butt banging and promoting their deviant lifestyle. --Tyr

You're an agent too; I'm an agent; even gays are agents. I'm still unsure what you mean by removal of consequences. Your example sounds like you think marriage is a private club that government is obligated to protect as man/wife marrieds.

Traditionally, marriage is between man/wife. It's tradition that it is until death do you part. Its also traditional that a wife submits to her husband and it wasn't that long ago that a husband couldn't be charged for raping his wife. Not but a decade delayed over this same period, while still proscribing homosexual sodomy, sodomy between husband and wife was allowed in Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, Rhode Island, Tennessee, and Texas.
What's to make of all this? Hyperbolically I'd argue that:

It's the government's fault since a man can't rape his wife he's forced to stray into sin. Those darned progressives really messed things up with their liberal ideas of gender equality. First women attain suffrage, then they get a say over birth control, even getting to deny their husband dominion over their bodies. All this breaking down traditional gender roles so its no wonder these gays think they can get married too. Classic slippery slope. Before we know it there'll be sodomizing going on in the streets; beastiality too. And if you stick to traditional marriage the government will take your guns and round you up into camps-- we're already marked with bands!

[Larrymc]

I saw that two of the members here made it on TV with Russell Brand. Which users are these? Stand up and claim yourself.

Quit amusing, applaud them for have the strength to go on such a Liberal show and speak the truth, and no surprise they were met with contempt, The Truth Is Silly To Those who parish, Brand said to say Homosexuality is wrong, is ignore the peace love and tolerance of the Bible, but that's not true, its what homosexuals use to ignore hearing the truth. West westboro is an Extremist Group and way out there on most of there thinking, but as for as their statements on this show, it was blunt but true.

[fj1200]

Your right I pasted the wrong one Sorry. there is another one i intended, but it doesn't matter, your simple Liberal Mind Can not Comprehend Common sense, or the idea there is a right and a wrong, and there for can't fathom, that something you desire could possibly be wrong.so like others here, I see your desperation to normalize Homosexuality, which lead me to believe you are Gay, its OK, but please stop trying to justify your sexual preference, don't worry you self about impeding my horse beating im done, but if you would like to enlighten your self with more of my wisdom fell free to back search this thread,

I see we have another "conservative" with an active imagination. Simple minded indeed, can't have that darn Constitution get in the way of some being more equal than others.

[Larrymc]

I see we have another "conservative" with an active imagination. Simple minded indeed, can't have that darn Constitution get in the way of some being more equal than others.

Sorry we can't accommodate every sexual Deviancy with new Laws and Traditions, and unfortunately that includes your personal preference as well, I fell your desperation, but look don't hurt your self, trying to understand, its far to simple for the Liberal Mind.

[aboutime]

Sorry we can't accommodate every sexual Deviancy with new Laws and Traditions, and unfortunately that includes your personal preference as well, I fell your desperation, but look don't hurt your self, trying to understand, its far to simple for the Liberal Mind.

Larrymc. Just ignore fj. The fj stands for f'n jerk...for starters. And he never fails to prove it here.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's the government's fault since a man can't rape his wife he's forced to stray into sin. Those darned progressives really messed things up with their liberal ideas of gender equality. First women attain suffrage, then they get a say over birth control, even getting to deny their husband dominion over their bodies. All this breaking down traditional gender roles so its no wonder these gays think they can get married too. Classic slippery slope. Before we know it there'll be sodomizing going on in the streets; beastiality too. And if you stick to traditional marriage the government will take your guns and round you up into camps-- we're already marked with bands!

^^ Finally you see the light!! --Tyr