Islamic education plot in UK

[aboutime]

You're stuck in a repeating cycle on this, just finding excuses to deny what's already proven. I wonder how many more times it needs to be said (!!!) ... TAX CUTS MEAN LOSS OF REVENUE, SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE AFFORDED. Saying that tax cuts will stimulate business and generate growth is one thing ... affording it all BEFORE the growth has had a chance to feed into the economy, is something else !!

A sufficiently weak economy can't wait around for a couple of years before seeing those benefits. THIS I'VE EXPLAINED .. THIS HAS BEEN OUR CONSERVATIVES' POSITION .. THIS HAS ALSO BEEN THE BANK OF ENGLAND'S POSITION.

... but never mind. YOU, and our LEFTIES, claim to know better. So, that's all right, then ....

Your insistence that bias was/is involved is just wrong. The Governor of the Bank of England risks his job the moment he indulges such bias. NO ... much though you'll hate this, our Governor gave COMMONSENSE advice to Gordon Brown. Brown, being a Leftie and so immune to any likelihood that he could be infected with rationality, pretty much ignored him.



... still a repeating cycle, I see. The logic of your case is such that it must mirror that of Gordon Brown. Brown knew of the need to afford tax cuts, even if you yourself won't admit the point. So, he shamelessly borrowed billions to cover the shortfall.

Your argument has to lead to a duplication of those actions, if/when applied. IT CAN'T NOT DO ... TAX CUTS HAVE TO BE AFFORDED.



I am no pro-Globalist !!! But since you insist on your argument, then you insist on what flows from it. Enter the likes of the IMF on to the scene, to afford what you and Brown need them to afford (since, in your model, it's unavoidable ..).



I would always hope that you make progress, FJ. I'm that nice a guy.



NOT WITHOUT HAVING TO FUND IT IN THE SHORT TERM !! Maybe Reagan had the benefit of an economic powerhouse robust enough to make his strategy work. Such is not the case for the UK ... if it was, no austerity package would've ever been needed. BUT IT IS.



If by that you mean 'flattery', aren't you an asterisk short ? I'd rather not indulge my imagination by supplying an alternative ....

Tut tut.



Dream on. YOU are the one claiming Thatcherite support, yet providing NONE of that in your thinking !!



I have here. I have in previous posts. So, to say it yet AGAIN ... TAX CUTS HAVE TO BE AFFORDED. And, guess what ? Those lending the funds CHARGE for it !!!



Dealt with already. Maybe Reagan could follow his plan, like a good Conservative, BECAUSE IT COULD BE AFFORDED. Likewise, I'm totally sure that our Conservatives, being natural tax-cutters themselves, would be delighted to follow suit. BUT, REALITY DOESN'T PERMIT IT THIS TIME ... OUR ECONOMY IS TOO WEAK TO ABSORB A SHORT-TERM REVENUE SHORTFALL.

Really, FJ ... how many MORE times must I make this point ???????!!??????

Sir Drummond. No matter how many times, or ways we attempt to explain this tax cut/hike business to those who are convinced the OPPOSITE of everything all the time. It never sinks in. Much like that "Leading a horse to water...".
Someone has convinced the SELF-DECLARED SMARTER ones...only THEY are capable of believing their own forms of fictional facts. Something we call Lies, which offends them because...somebody else does all of their thinking for them...and that just INSULTS the daylights out of them. Never willing to admit they are Incapable of thinking logically...on their own.

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. No matter how many times, or ways we attempt to explain this tax cut/hike business to those who are convinced the OPPOSITE of everything all the time. It never sinks in. Much like that "Leading a horse to water...".
Someone has convinced the SELF-DECLARED SMARTER ones...only THEY are capable of believing their own forms of fictional facts. Something we call Lies, which offends them because...somebody else does all of their thinking for them...and that just INSULTS the daylights out of them. Never willing to admit they are Incapable of thinking logically...on their own.

Very true, Aboutime. I can argue my sheer commonsense argument until I'm blue in the face, and make not the slightest headway.

What's more, I'll shortly prove the point once again. A quote FJ has supplied comes from an apparent 'economist' who's made a fundamental flaw in what he assumes is true for the UK. Pointing this out is bound to be a total waste of time. But I'll do it anyway.

[Drummond]

Possibly until you get it right; You're destined to become Greece.

You know what ? You're the only person I 'know' who thinks that.

It's sad that "conservatives" in the UK are just furthering the downfall of their own economy.

Nope - what's really sad, FJ (and just a little irritating, to be totally honest ..) is that you can't move away from such bizarre thinking. This post will further prove that to be true, regardless of what I post, and we both know it.

Here's a link you'll ignore because it shows the reality of your position:

Why European Austerity Fails

And in case you missed it, that "government centric view" is yours.

Nope AGAIN, FJ. I haven't ignored it. In fact, I've studied it sufficiently well to spot its fundamental flaw.

One quick point in passing, before I continue: a note of congratulations. You see, I thought you'd probably supplied something from either a Leftie chum, masquerading as an 'objective' commentator, or, that the host page was financed or run by a Leftie-friendly outfit. I've actually found neither to be apparently true.

So ... well done indeed, FJ. Remarkable ....

Anyway, to business ... this, from the article your link leads to ...

The reason European austerity has failed is not because of the reductions in government spending, but because those spending cuts have been paired with tax increases. The Europeans are struggling to reduce government spending by less than 5% of GDP. But unlike the U.S., which paired extreme budget cuts with across-the-board reductions in personal income tax rates, the European austerity combines spending cuts with massive tax increases. The result is a toxic brew which shrinks both government and the private sector, producing recession, rising unemployment, and massive budget shortfalls.

This is all very well. However, what we have here is the basis for the flaw this commentator thinks to be true of the UK (.. and I think you're making the same mistake ..) .. THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THE UK CHANCELLOR IS COPYING THE EUROPEAN MODEL, WHEN IN FACT HE IS NOT.

The UK approach is not one - not under the Conservatives, certainly - of walloping people with tax rises. I grant you, he's messed about with tax threshholds ... and he definitely doesn't want to lower them, not under current fiscal circumstances. But if 'mainland' Europe is going in for tax hikes, Osborne is NOT.

[Oh, and one point you might like to consider: we don't just have a Conservative Government, but a Coalition one, with power shared with our LibDems (the LibDems over here being a halfway-house between our Conservatives and the harder-Left Labour Party, formerly headed by Gordon Brown). Osborne has had to contend with LibDem comments regarding his precise policies, but nonetheless, DOES ENJOY LIBDEM BASIC SUPPORT]

Kadlec warms to his theme, compounding his error about the UK, if indeed he thinks we're copying Europe. Maybe his thinking is right about the EU approach. But their approach isn't precisely ours.

I think, FJ, that you may find this link far more usefully instructive - IF you're prepared to take any notice, that is .... 'enjoy' these quotes ...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/aus...ent-2013-09-18

The British bounce-back has confounded the Keynesian consensus, which forecast repeatedly that the austerity program imposed by Prime Minister David Cameron’s coalition government would pitch the country into a deep depression. And it has chalked up a significant victory for those who argue that cutting deficits and controlling debt — so long as it is done in the right way — can promote growth rather than destroy it.

If they are smart, investors are going to pay a lot less attention to those warnings of austerity leading to doom from now on.

Revised gross domestic product figures last month showed the economy grew by 0.7% in the second quarter of the year, and there are predictions growth could reach 1% for the third quarter. Earlier this month the OECD sharply increased its forecast of growth for the U.K. economy this year to 1.5% from an earlier estimate of 0.8%. Retail sales were up 1.1% over the last month, and house prices are starting to fizz again. Both services and manufacturing are purring along, and jobs are being created in the private sector to compensate for those lost in the public. It is not exactly an economic miracle — but it is a lot better than most people expected at the start of the year.

And it is certainly a lot better than any of the leading Keynesian economists thought possible. Go back a year, and there were frantically warning that Cameron’s austerity program was pushing the country into a slump.

But what you can’t honestly do is argue that austerity — such as it — has prevented the U.K. from returning to growth or caused a fresh slump. Nor can you deny that if the U.K. was running a deficit of say 9% of GDP now — as Krugman, Summers and presumably the IMF’s Blanchard would have liked — it would have to work a lot harder over the next few years to get that back down toward an acceptable long-term rate.

In fact, the interesting lesson from the U.K. is not about whether austerity works or not — but how it can work, if it is done in the right way.

The U.K. mixed a gradual reduction in government spending in real terns with near-zero interest rates, huge blast of quantitative easing, and a sharply depreciated currency. All of that helped to sustain demand when it might otherwise have crumbled — and allowed the U.K. to return to growth, while the euro zone has barely recovered at all.

The Keynesian consensus, which often seems to believe that the level of government spending is all that really matters to an economy, and that economies can’t recover while spending is being cut, has surely been blown out of the water. Smart investors won’t listen to it again.

How do you explain Marketwatch being so upbeat, FJ ? And note their differentiation between our way of doing things, and that of much of the rest of Europe. Osborne, and the British Government, have been wiser in their application of austerity measures, not encumbering them with corresponding tax hikes.

Your pal Kadlec couldn't spot the difference, and so made his error, AN ERROR YOU'VE BOUGHT INTO.

You know, FJ, the sooner you depart from your Leftie-sympathetic thinking, and instead TRULY adopt a Thatcherite mindset .. one based on prudent housekeeping ... the better.

But I won't hold my breath waiting for such a miracle !

[fj1200]

... we attempt to explain...

When have you attempted to explain anything? You make such an absurd post... it's sad when I get glimpses into your normally ignored posts.

Very true, Aboutime. I can argue my sheer commonsense argument until I'm blue in the face, and make not the slightest headway.

What's more, I'll shortly prove the point once again. A quote FJ has supplied comes from an apparent 'economist' who's made a fundamental flaw in what he assumes is true for the UK. Pointing this out is bound to be a total waste of time. But I'll do it anyway.

Before you get too far down your rabbit hole.

Counterfactual: Coalition austerity and the UK recession

To provide illustration, we apply our estimates to make an (out-of-sample) counterfactual forecast of the post-2007 path of the UK economy without the fiscal austerity policies imposed by the coalition government after the 2010 election.
Two assumptions may be needed to make this exercise relevant. First, we assume that the UK had fiscal space and was not forced to do austerity; this may be defended in that real GDP is now worse than was expected in 2010, and debt to GDP higher than expected, yet gilt yields remain ultra-low in real terms (and at their lowest nominal level in their 280 years of recorded history). Second, we assume that policymakers care about timing fiscal adjustments so as to mitigate damage to the real GDP path of the economy; this is, at least, an oft-stated goal of most policymakers.
The results are presented in Figure 1, where we show actual and forecast paths for UK real GDP from 2007 (the business cycle peak) through 2013. How much of the poorer outturn can be attributed to the fiscal policy choice of instigating austerity during a bad slump? The answer, using our model as described above, is about 60%. Without austerity, UK real output would now be steadily climbing above its 2007 peak, rather than being stuck 2% below.
Figure 1. UK actual path and counterfactual path without austerity


The residual relative to the forecast could be accounted for by various omitted factors, as has been noted (Davies 2012), such as export patterns in the Eurozone and idiosyncratic UK sector shocks. There could also have been over-optimism in the 2010 forecast. However, a major caveat suggests that we likely have a biased underestimate of the effects of current UK austerity. This caveat is the zero lower bound, when fiscal multipliers are known to be much larger in both theory and evidence. Our UK out-of-sample counterfactual does correspond to a 'liquidity trap' environment, but our in-sample data overwhelmingly do not.⁵ Thus our estimate of austerity’s effects in the UK is probably conservative.

Just more proof of my initial statement. Austerity sucks.

[Drummond]

'

Before you get too far down your rabbit hole.


Just more proof of my initial statement. Austerity sucks.

Nope.

Two points.

One - the link you've provided is a year out of date.

Two - a premise all this is based upon is completely wrong. Quoted from your piece ...

First, we assume that the UK had fiscal space and was not forced to do austerity

Therein lies the flaw. It's because we had NO such so-called 'fiscal space' that austerity measures were entered into !!! Otherwise ... why bother with them at all ?

In fact, FJ, this is the WHOLE point. Had your Labour buddies not acted recklessly previously - much less promised to continue to !!! - such 'fiscal space' would've doubtless existed. Instead ... thumb back to the evidence of a certain letter left by the outgoing regime, in which it was blatantly stated that THERE IS NO MORE MONEY.

Money recklessly borrowed was provided, as you'd expect, with interest charged. FJ, it's all our Government can do to cope with the swingeing interest repayments ... THAT is how bad the Lefties were in running the economy !! We quite literally had no option but to try out an austerity package.

You say 'austerity sucks'. Yes, it does .. nobody likes it. But it's the only realistic remedy.

[fj1200]

You know what ? You're the only person I 'know' who thinks that.

Nope - what's really sad, FJ (and just a little irritating, to be totally honest ..) is that you can't move away from such bizarre thinking. This post will further prove that to be true, regardless of what I post, and we both know it.

I may be the only one saying so but you need to think long term. And as far as that "bizarre thinking" every link I show you says the same thing. You're to obstinate to read them.

... You see, I thought you'd probably supplied ...

But that's your problem; you don't think, you assume. You assume what I think or will post and you can't get away from your preconceived notions that would let you understand where someone else may come from.

This is all very well. However, what we have here is the basis for the flaw this commentator thinks to be true of the UK (.. and I think you're making the same mistake ..) .. THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THE UK CHANCELLOR IS COPYING THE EUROPEAN MODEL, WHEN IN FACT HE IS NOT.

The UK approach is not one - not under the Conservatives, certainly - of walloping people with tax rises. I grant you, he's messed about with tax threshholds ... and he definitely doesn't want to lower them, not under current fiscal circumstances. But if 'mainland' Europe is going in for tax hikes, Osborne is NOT.

Austerity is a matter of scale:

The UK is showing us why austerity is dangerous, but are we paying attention?

But in the summer of 2010, the newly-elected conservative-led coalition government of the U.K. passed and implemented an aggressive austerity budget. This budget was heavily weighted toward spending cuts—nearly 80 percent of the total fiscal consolidation—and included a 25 percent cut to non-health domestic departmental spending by 2014-15. Tax increases accounted for the remaining 20 percent, including increases in the value-added tax (essentially a sales tax). In total, this fiscal consolidation represented 2.2 percent of U.K. GDP by 2014-2015. Combined with the previous government’s planned austerity, the overall fiscal consolidation implemented totaled 6.3 percent of GDP. - See more at: http://www.epi.org/blog/uk-showing-a....pYEEQtWZ.dpuf

Thankfully you've not fully chosen to go down with the PIIGS but tax increases are undeniable... or so I thought. And of course economic conditions are not immune from decisions made by the central government which leads to the following result:



Austerity sucks.

Oh, and one point you might like to consider: we don't just have a Conservative Government, but a Coalition one, with power shared with our LibDems (the LibDems over here being a halfway-house between our Conservatives and the harder-Left Labour Party, formerly headed by Gordon Brown). Osborne has had to contend with LibDem comments regarding his precise policies, but nonetheless, DOES ENJOY LIBDEM BASIC SUPPORT]

Kadlec warms to his theme, compounding his error about the UK, if indeed he thinks we're copying Europe. Maybe his thinking is right about the EU approach. But their approach isn't precisely ours.

I think, FJ, that you may find this link far more usefully instructive - IF you're prepared to take any notice, that is .... 'enjoy' these quotes ...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/aus...ent-2013-09-18

So what you're saying by your coalition government comment is that in order for the Tories to get what they want they need to move leftward in order to garner their support. Well that would just confirm what I've been saying all along wouldn't it?

Nevertheless, what I "enjoyed" was your exercise in cherry picking certain quotes. How about I do the same:

...
The British economy is not exactly booming. But it is at least firing on one cylinder if not two, and there is no question the economy is looking in better shape than it was just a few months ago.
...
The big cheeses of the International Monetary Fund took much the same view. In January this year, its chief economist Oliver Blanchard cut the growth forecast for this year to just 1%, and told the BBC in an interview that austerity was being overdone. “We think this would be a good time to take stock,” he said of the government’s spending plans, indicating that the government should loosen up its purse strings, and add a bit more to the national debt.
Admittedly, these are the same geniuses who bought us the Greek “rescue” packages (current youth unemployment rate 57% — which makes you wonder what happens without the “rescue”), but even so that is a spectacular misjudgment.
...
And, in fairness, many of the U.K.’s critics listened to the rhetoric of austerity rather than looking at the actual figures. Measured in real terms, British public spending may be under pressure, but in cash terms the government is spending 4% more this year than last. The deficit is still running at 7.1% of GDP, higher than in France, Spain or even Greece, and is only projected to drop to 6.5% next year. By any historical standards, that is pumping a lot of demand into the economy.
...
The U.K. mixed a gradual reduction in government spending in real terns with near-zero interest rates, huge blast of quantitative easing, and a sharply depreciated currency. All of that helped to sustain demand when it might otherwise have crumbled — and allowed the U.K. to return to growth, while the euro zone has barely recovered at all.

The Keynesian consensus, which often seems to believe that the level of government spending is all that really matters to an economy, and that economies can’t recover while spending is being cut, has surely been blown out of the water. Smart investors won’t listen to it again.

I especially liked that part about the IMF as you were touting their expertise previously but failed to quote them... curious that eh? They also look to heap a lot of credit on monetary policy, i.e. interest rates, QE, and currency devaluation, so good luck in parsing out austerity from those factors. And of course seeing as I'm not a Keynesian, I wouldn't listen to them either. And those are some pretty grim looking budget numbers wouldn't you say?

How do you explain Marketwatch being so upbeat, FJ ? And note their differentiation between our way of doing things, and that of much of the rest of Europe. Osborne, and the British Government, have been wiser in their application of austerity measures, not encumbering them with corresponding tax hikes.

Your pal Kadlec couldn't spot the difference, and so made his error, AN ERROR YOU'VE BOUGHT INTO.

You know, FJ, the sooner you depart from your Leftie-sympathetic thinking, and instead TRULY adopt a Thatcherite mindset .. one based on prudent housekeeping ... the better.

But I won't hold my breath waiting for such a miracle !

MW seems to be upbeat that results beat the Keynesians expectations; And I'm always happy when Keynesians are beaten. There was also a lot there, you know the stuff you didn't quote, that shows the reality of what's going on in the UK.

Well, I've already pointed out that tax hikes have occurred at your "Federal" level it also seems that some important lower level tax issues that will have an impact, unless of course London is a small part of the UK's GDP figures (oops, they're ~22% of UK GDP):

50% rate will make London the tax capital of the world

London will become the most highly taxed financial centre in the world when the new 50 per cent income tax rate for those earning £150,000 or more comes into force next month.Taxes will be higher than for financial workers living in the other key centres of New York, Paris, Frankfurt, Geneva, Zurich, Dubai and Hong Kong, KPMG calculated.

Oh, and your dumb F***ery ignored because I'm sure of two things, I don't know who Kadlec is and Mags is no longer around to have an opinion on austerity.

[fj1200]

Nope.

Two points.

One - the link you've provided is a year out of date.

Two - a premise all this is based upon is completely wrong. Quoted from your piece ...

Therein lies the flaw. It's because we had NO such so-called 'fiscal space' that austerity measures were entered into !!! Otherwise ... why bother with them at all ?

One - a year out of date? That's what you're going to hang your hat on?

Two - debunked before you even replied.

First, we assume that the UK had fiscal space and was not forced to do austerity; this may be defended in that real GDP is now worse than was expected in 2010, and debt to GDP higher than expected, yet gilt yields remain ultra-low in real terms (and at their lowest nominal level in their 280 years of recorded history).

Had your Labour buddies...

You say 'austerity sucks'. Yes, it does .. nobody likes it. But it's the only realistic remedy.

One - prove I have Labour "buddies." This should be good.

Two - at least you agree that austerity sucks.

[aboutime]

I really enjoy it, and get so many laughs from fj's expected, predictable posts.

Too bad fj is the only one who he convinced. Otherwise. A waste of time in attempting to deal with him...for any reason.

But...in order to move the threads down on DP. I tempt fate, and get a good laugh in the process.

[Drummond]

I may be the only one saying so but you need to think long term.

Definitely a joke ! Austerity is ALL ABOUT thinking long term. Our Chancellor is already considering whether austerity needs to be applied beyond 2018 !

And as far as that "bizarre thinking" every link I show you says the same thing. You're to obstinate to read them.

So, how inclined were you to be advised by my 'Marketwatch' one ? THAT article, written before 2013 had ended, concluded that doom-prophets such as yourself were wrong. Besides, as I pointed out, your graph, your material generally, was a year out of date.

For your information, FJ, we're beginning to go from strength to strength. Did you monitor the results of last Wednesday's Budget (.. I'll bet you're so out of touch with Britain's fiscal management that you were even unaware that there WAS one, much less what came of it !!!). CHECK IT OUT. You'll see that some relatively minor tax CUTS have resulted.

Why ? Because, as I've explained, our Conservatives are natural tax CUTTERS. If they fail to cut tax, that's because they don't see any realistic latitude for it ...

... which has been my point all along.

But that's your problem; you don't think, you assume. You assume what I think or will post and you can't get away from your preconceived notions that would let you understand where someone else may come from.

Ahem ! You're not strong on context, are you ? Didn't I make the point that I had CHECKED the value/quality of your source material ? That speaks of going beyond mere assumptiveness !!

And your whole argument, as I've said already and exhaustively by now, IS ONE THAT OUR LEFT WING WOULD IDENTIFY WITH. That remains a fact. Considering this, also the fact of your previous Leftie friendly posting (arguing for the same treatment for terrorists that THEY advocate, for example ..), means that the only consistency in your posting is a Leftie-sympathetic set of thought processes.

I don't consider it a coincidence that you, now, 'just happen' to be seeing things as our LEFTIES would. I see it as proof of how you really think.

Austerity is a matter of scale

... and of commitment to it. The more it's watered down, the less effective a remedy it becomes.

Mention is made of so-called tax increases insitituted in 2010. These were corrective, balancing measures, and were as minor as the Conservatives could reasonably make them. After all, expenditure cuts were the real focus. However, since you're talking about scale, how about the scale of the problem inherited from your Leftie chums ???

That's the trouble here. Lefties create messes - our Conservatives clean up after them. It was done in the years following Lady Thatcher's victory over them. It is being done now, post-2010.

Thankfully you've not fully chosen to go down with the PIIGS but tax increases are undeniable... or so I thought.

What IS undeniable - even though you're doing your best to show solidarity with Labour, and do just that !!! - is that OUR ECONOMY IS SHOWING CLEAR SIGNS OF RECOVERY. Your 'we're going to end up like Greece' argument is nonsense.

Observe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/budg...t-economy.html

The UK economy is recovering faster than expected and it is time for the British people to be rewarded for holding their nerve, George Osborne said today.

Unveiling a stridently upbeat Budget, the Chancellor promised millions of people an income tax cut, cheaper childcare, a penny off a pint of beer and bigger bingo prizes.

And in a pitch to the powerful grey vote, he announced the biggest overhaul of pensions for 100 years, cutting tax for savers and giving people full access to their nest eggs as soon as they retire leading to a stock market slump in annuities firms.

To cheers in the Commons, Mr Osborne declared: 'With the help of the British people we’re turning our country around.'

The British economy is on course to grow by 2.7 per cent in 2014, up from 1.8 per cent forecast a year ago – the biggest upgrade for at least 30 years.

Setting out his pitch to voters ahead of the 2015 general election, Mr Osborne declared: ‘If you’re a maker, a doer or a saver: this Budget is for you.
‘We set out our plan and together with the British people, we held our nerve. We’re putting Britain right.’

Are you taking notes ?

OK, FJ - reconcile THAT with your predictions of doom !! Fact is that AUSTERITY WORKS, CONSEQUENTLY, TAX CUTS ARE NOW, TO A LIMITED EXTENT, AFFORDABLE !!

If you read on, you'll see that Ed Miliband, the current Labour leader, tried to pour water on all of this. But then ... he, and you, think alike. He, and you, don't want to admit that Conservative fiscal prudence WORKS.

The article begins with this helpful Budget summary:

• Chancellor announces 1p cut in duty on each pint of beer and a freeze on cider and spirits in crowd-pleasing move
• Bingo tax halved to 10% with promise of bigger prizes for players
• Help for savers in the penultimate Budget before the election next year
• Cash and stocks ISAs to be merged into single ISA with annual tax-free savings limit of £15,000
• Osborne promised families extra help after coming through the recession
• Working parents offered £2,000 tax break on cost of childcare
• Vowed to cut taxes and boost manufacturing during 55-minute statement
• Threshold for paying both basic and higher tax rates is hiked
• £1 coin scrapped: New version will be shaped like old threepenny bit
• New promises will be funded by crackdown on tax evasion raising billions
• Growth forecasts upgraded as economic recovery gains momentum
• But more cuts are on the way with the welfare bill capped at £119bn

Conservatives will raise tax when they must, FJ. They much prefer to cut it, however. WITH SUFFICIENT LATITUDE AVAILABLE, THEY'LL DO SO. SO LONG AS SUCH CUTS CAN BE AFFORDED.

Your information, your whole premise, is outdated. Our economy is NOT sinking without trace .. IT IS RECOVERING. IT IS RECOVERING BECAUSE RESPONSIBLE FISCAL MEASURES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED, AND CONTINUE TO BE.

Austerity sucks.

You, and your Leftie chums, are peddling that for all you're worth, eh ? And DESPITE the growing evidence of its great worth as a remedy ! Yes, it isn't pleasant. BUT, IT WORKS.

So what you're saying by your coalition government comment is that in order for the Tories to get what they want they need to move leftward in order to garner their support. Well that would just confirm what I've been saying all along wouldn't it?

-- What, that you're proving how Leftie-friendly your thinking truly is ?

Have you ever considered applying to become Ed Miliband's scriptwriter ?

I don't think I need say much more to you on this subject, FJ. The truth is that not only are you wrong, but we're currently celebrating the success of the effects of responsible fiscal management ... the very approach which you argue will doom us to becoming another Greece. Conservatism WORKS - YOUR LEFTIE CLOUD-CUCKOOLAND LACK OF RESPONSIBLE PRUDENCE DOES NOT.

Oh, and your dumb F***ery ignored because I'm sure of two things, I don't know who Kadlec is and Mags is no longer around to have an opinion on austerity.

Counting the asterisks, you can't mean 'flattery' .. what DO you mean ?

You don't know who Kadlec is ??? FJ, have you tried being properly attentive to your OWN material ? He's the author of one of your links !!!!

'Mags', as you disrespectfully call her, may not be around. But, her reverence for proper fiscal prudence is well known, and IT DEFIES YOUR OWN PHILOSOPHISING ... THIS ITSELF PROVING THAT YOU'RE NO 'THATCHERITE'.

OBSERVE ---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_conservatism

Fiscal conservatism in the UK was arguably most popular during the premiership of Margaret Thatcher, who, after a number of years of deficit spending under the previous Labour government, advocated spending cuts and selective tax increases to balance the budget. However, despite being elected in 1979, Britain's budget was not balanced until 1988.

In 2010, as a result of the deterioration in the UK's public finances caused by the Late-2000s recession and by the European sovereign debt crisis, the Liberal Democrat-Conservative Coalition embarked on an austerity programme – featuring a combination of spending cuts and tax rises – in an attempt to halve the deficit, and completely eliminate the structural deficit over the five-year parliament.

You say that 'Mags' is no longer around to have an opinion on austerity. True. BUT HER RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. SHE, ALONG WITH OUR CURRENT CONSERVATIVES, WOULD RUN TAXATION STRATEGIES ACCORDING TO THEIR AFFORDABILITY.

Austerity takes a long time to properly work .. but work, it does.

You're just no 'Thatcherite' at all .. are you, FJ ?

[Drummond]

I really enjoy it, and get so many laughs from fj's expected, predictable posts.

Too bad fj is the only one who he convinced. Otherwise. A waste of time in attempting to deal with him...for any reason.

But...in order to move the threads down on DP. I tempt fate, and get a good laugh in the process.

.. Indeed, Aboutime. And this does have its funny side.

I've just posted something that should be convincing to FJ. Of course, though, it won't be. I knew before I drafted it that posting what I intended, despite the fact I was right - and provably so - would be a waste of time, that FJ won't deviate from his delusions.

I'm especially enjoying his delusion that we're heading in Greece's direction, when in fact we've just had a Budget which could relax some tax restrictions BECAUSE WE'RE UNDERGOING A RECOVERY !

Still, I enjoy showing his stuff up for the rubbish it is.

In 'FJ-world' ... he's a 'Thatcherite'. This despite thinking very differently to her in a variety of ways, not least the one I've been discussing ... fiscal prudence, her enthusiasm for advocating that everyone, whilst ideally being wealth-generators, should nonetheless live within their means.

FJ's argument clones Gordon Brown's one, Brown being a LEFTIE. Telling him that is useless, of course, because at heart he sees things the way our LEFTIES do, and won't change course.

Why would he ? He's no Thatcherite, after all.

[fj1200]

Definitely a joke ! Austerity is ALL ABOUT thinking long term. Our Chancellor is already considering whether austerity needs to be applied beyond 2018 !

You might be right about that because austerity is all about reapplication when it doesn't do as promised:

At Budget 2010, the end of the forecast period was 2015-16. However, in 2014 the Treasury extended the proposed austerity period until at least 2018.^[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...rity_programme

Quite the vote of confidence that gives you.

So, how inclined were you to be advised by my 'Marketwatch' one ? THAT article, written before 2013 had ended, concluded that doom-prophets such as yourself were wrong. Besides, as I pointed out, your graph, your material generally, was a year out of date.

For your information, FJ, we're beginning to go from strength to strength. Did you monitor the results of last Wednesday's Budget (.. I'll bet you're so out of touch with Britain's fiscal management that you were even unaware that there WAS one, much less what came of it !!!). CHECK IT OUT. You'll see that some relatively minor tax CUTS have resulted.

Why ? Because, as I've explained, our Conservatives are natural tax CUTTERS. If they fail to cut tax, that's because they don't see any realistic latitude for it ...

... which has been my point all along.

A year out of date? Yes, hang your hat on that one. What it shows is that due to austerity your economy underperformed. Besides, the MW article was just fine, the sad part was your need to cherry pick to try and bolster your point. Besides, as I'm trying to explain to you, revenues have more to do with economic strength than they do rates:

<iframe src="//charts-datawrapper.s3.amazonaws.com/tU51u/index.html" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" oallowfullscreen="" msallowfullscreen="" width="460" height="500"></iframe>

http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...-receipts-1963

Ahem ! You're not strong on context, are you ? Didn't I make the point that I had CHECKED the value/quality of your source material ? That speaks of going beyond mere assumptiveness !!

And your whole argument, as I've said already and exhaustively by now, IS ONE THAT OUR LEFT WING WOULD IDENTIFY WITH. That remains a fact. Considering this, also the fact of your previous Leftie friendly posting (arguing for the same treatment for terrorists that THEY advocate, for example ..), means that the only consistency in your posting is a Leftie-sympathetic set of thought processes.

I don't consider it a coincidence that you, now, 'just happen' to be seeing things as our LEFTIES would. I see it as proof of how you really think.

Yes it was quite an accomplishment for me that you were unable to just blather out leftie and ignore fact that gets in your way. Now when you're able to prove out my "leftie" status well, that would be something you've never done before.

... and of commitment to it. The more it's watered down, the less effective a remedy it becomes.

Mention is made of so-called tax increases insitituted in 2010. These were corrective, balancing measures, and were as minor as the Conservatives could reasonably make them. After all, expenditure cuts were the real focus. However, since you're talking about scale, how about the scale of the problem inherited from your Leftie chums ???

That's the trouble here. Lefties create messes - our Conservatives clean up after them. It was done in the years following Lady Thatcher's victory over them. It is being done now, post-2010.

Oh brother. So your argument is now that you should have gone the full austerity that the PIIGS went with? I already posted the craphole that they're in and you even lauded my source.

What IS undeniable - even though you're doing your best to show solidarity with Labour, and do just that !!! - is that OUR ECONOMY IS SHOWING CLEAR SIGNS OF RECOVERY. Your 'we're going to end up like Greece' argument is nonsense.

Observe:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/budg...t-economy.html

I said austerity sucks, not that you'd never see growth. And that you're beating expectations merely means that you have low expectations which I have low expectations with austerity too.

Are you taking notes ?

OK, FJ - reconcile THAT with your predictions of doom !! Fact is that AUSTERITY WORKS, CONSEQUENTLY, TAX CUTS ARE NOW, TO A LIMITED EXTENT, AFFORDABLE !!

If you read on, you'll see that Ed Miliband, the current Labour leader, tried to pour water on all of this. But then ... he, and you, think alike. He, and you, don't want to admit that Conservative fiscal prudence WORKS.

The article begins with this helpful Budget summary:

• Chancellor announces 1p cut in duty on each pint of beer and a freeze on cider and spirits in crowd-pleasing move
• Bingo tax halved to 10% with promise of bigger prizes for players
• Help for savers in the penultimate Budget before the election next year
• Cash and stocks ISAs to be merged into single ISA with annual tax-free savings limit of £15,000
• Osborne promised families extra help after coming through the recession
• Working parents offered £2,000 tax break on cost of childcare
• Vowed to cut taxes and boost manufacturing during 55-minute statement
• Threshold for paying both basic and higher tax rates is hiked
• £1 coin scrapped: New version will be shaped like old threepenny bit
• New promises will be funded by crackdown on tax evasion raising billions
• Growth forecasts upgraded as economic recovery gains momentum
• But more cuts are on the way with the welfare bill capped at £119bn

Conservatives will raise tax when they must, FJ. They much prefer to cut it, however. WITH SUFFICIENT LATITUDE AVAILABLE, THEY'LL DO SO. SO LONG AS SUCH CUTS CAN BE AFFORDED.

Your information, your whole premise, is outdated. Our economy is NOT sinking without trace .. IT IS RECOVERING. IT IS RECOVERING BECAUSE RESPONSIBLE FISCAL MEASURES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED, AND CONTINUE TO BE.

So your vaunted tax cuts are relegated to beer and bingo? If I bothered I'm pretty sure I could compare that list to Labour and the bad plans that BO has burdened us with and see some commonalities. There is almost nothing in there that is pro-growth that spurs the private sector to job growth andvlowered unemployment.

You, and your Leftie chums, are peddling that for all you're worth, eh ? And DESPITE the growing evidence of its great worth as a remedy ! Yes, it isn't pleasant. BUT, IT WORKS.

It doesn't work. It may not lead to the poor house... yet... but that doesn't mean it works. Every economic analysis I've shown you has proven out underperformance is economic growth and has led to extending austerity beyond its original intent.

-- What, that you're proving how Leftie-friendly your thinking truly is ?

Have you ever considered applying to become Ed Miliband's scriptwriter ?

I don't think I need say much more to you on this subject, FJ. The truth is that not only are you wrong, but we're currently celebrating the success of the effects of responsible fiscal management ... the very approach which you argue will doom us to becoming another Greece. Conservatism WORKS - YOUR LEFTIE CLOUD-CUCKOOLAND LACK OF RESPONSIBLE PRUDENCE DOES NOT.

Your dumb F***ery is epic. Please show me where I am in favor of Labour's solutions. :tapsfoot:

Counting the asterisks, you can't mean 'flattery' .. what DO you mean ?

You don't know who Kadlec is ??? FJ, have you tried being properly attentive to your OWN material ? He's the author of one of your links !!!!

'Mags', as you disrespectfully call her, may not be around. But, her reverence for proper fiscal prudence is well known, and IT DEFIES YOUR OWN PHILOSOPHISING ... THIS ITSELF PROVING THAT YOU'RE NO 'THATCHERITE'.

OBSERVE ---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_conservatism

I guess I should use Tyr's spelling of your status as head of dumb ffkkery.

Of course her austerity does explain your sky high unemployment rates during the 80's while the US was enjoying falling rates.





Why do you hate your unemployed citizens so?

You say that 'Mags' is no longer around to have an opinion on austerity. True. BUT HER RECORD SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. SHE, ALONG WITH OUR CURRENT CONSERVATIVES, WOULD RUN TAXATION STRATEGIES ACCORDING TO THEIR AFFORDABILITY.

Austerity takes a long time to properly work .. but work, it does.

You're just no 'Thatcherite' at all .. are you, FJ ?

No, it really doesn't. The facts don't lie, Reagan had it right.

[Drummond]

Your last post, FJ, is as tiresome as it gets. The Chancellor's recent Budget was upbeat, because he knew our economy was recovering. And NOT going the way of Greece, which is what YOU claimed !!

A year out of date? Yes, hang your hat on that one.

... and happily so ! The most dramatic evidence of our recovery post-dates the graph and your quote.

What it shows is that due to austerity your economy underperformed. Besides, the MW article was just fine, the sad part was your need to cherry pick to try and bolster your point. Besides, as I'm trying to explain to you, revenues have more to do with economic strength than they do rates:

<iframe src="//charts-datawrapper.s3.amazonaws.com/tU51u/index.html" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" oallowfullscreen="" msallowfullscreen="" width="460" height="500"></iframe>

I'm happy with that graph. Do you notice how each line, when you extrapolate, promises the great likelihood of eventual convergence ? The two are heading to parity, and why ? Because SPENDING IS BEING SHARPLY CURBED, AND TAXES REFLECT ITS AFFORDABILITY.

Taxes, if necessary, need to rise in a weak economy. OR, if the economy strengthens AND recovers, then there's scope for tax cuts. What is all important IS WHAT CAN BE AFFORDED.

By the way .. I see you obtained the graph from the Guardian ? When all else fails, go to a Leftie publication for help, eh ??

Rather you than me. Although ... from your link ....

http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...-receipts-1963

... I see ...

Government spending needs us to be paying tax. So, how is it doing?

Coming from them, that's impressive !

Yes it was quite an accomplishment for me that you were unable to just blather out leftie and ignore fact that gets in your way. Now when you're able to prove out my "leftie" status well, that would be something you've never done before.

Agreed - I don't need to. You do a splendid job of it, all on your own ... especially so in this thread. Your anti-Austerity line is very much a pro-Leftie one .. Ed Miliband, and Gordon Brown before him, were committed to opposing it.

I said austerity sucks, not that you'd never see growth.

Excellent bit of backsliding there. If austerity was so bad, and we were going to turn into Greece, growth would be an unattainable dream.

And that you're beating expectations merely means that you have low expectations which I have low expectations with austerity too.

What it really means is that, from a ruined economy, expectations (especially in the early years) couldn't be anything BUT low. What matters is that Lady Thatcher's belief in prudent housekeeping is respected and translated into the proper action.

But, now, we're recovering. Ah, FJ, how you must hate that !! The OPPOSITE policies to your Brown-clone ones, are winning through !

And don't tell me they're not. I LIVE HERE .. YOU DO NOT.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/b...ve-charts.html

The Chancellor has delivered his first Budget with strong economic growth figures behind him - here's a look at the data

You're fond of graphs ? Check out the link. Note the bar graph shown ... and the IMMEDIATE reversal in our performance, the moment Leftie methodology was abandoned !

So your vaunted tax cuts are relegated to beer and bingo?

They're better than nothing. They're not major changes, though, and I'd be alarmed if they were .. because if they WERE, then commonsense would've flown out the window.

If I bothered I'm pretty sure I could compare that list to Labour and the bad plans that BO has burdened us with and see some commonalities. There is almost nothing in there that is pro-growth that spurs the private sector to job growth andvlowered unemployment.

Considering how reckless you want to be in chasing your growth incentives .. I'm glad. Only AFFORDABLE measures are sensible ones.

It doesn't work. It may not lead to the poor house... yet... but that doesn't mean it works. Every economic analysis I've shown you has proven out underperformance is economic growth and has led to extending austerity beyond its original intent.

For a while, yes, economic performance was disappointing. But, we're turning a corner .. and especially so, in the last year. OK, you hate that .. but, well .. TOUGH. We're not the basket case you wish we were.

Your dumb F***ery is epic. Please show me where I am in favor of Labour's solutions. :tapsfoot:

TRY THIS THREAD !! From the moment it was hijacked from its original subject, you've been busily cloning Brown's and Miliband's opposition to our Conservative methods.

I guess I should use Tyr's spelling of your status as head of dumb ffkkery.

It does have the virtue of clarity. Tell me, are there any other lessons that Tyr can teach you ??

Of course her austerity does explain your sky high unemployment rates during the 80's while the US was enjoying falling rates.





Why do you hate your unemployed citizens so?

Look ... I already KNOW you're no Thatcherite !!! Aren't you embarrassed to make it so very obvious ??

And you're being very far from fair.

The Winter of Discontent. In the UK, in late 1978, stretching into 1979, our Leftie militants went berserk ... not merely with strikes, but WAVE after WAVE of them. Companies lost orders and eventually folded. Other strikes, such as transport strikes, did further overall damage. So it's hardly surprising, is it, that in the years ahead, that loss of competitive infrastructure translated into starkly higher unemployment !!!

Lady Thatcher had a great deal to fix, not least (a) taming our Unions, and (b) convincing foreign markets that we were achieving viability once more.

You don't achieve that in the space of just a few months. A timelag of years is only to be expected. And you see the effect in the graph.

Since you see fit to try and compare the UK with the US's performance over that period, tell me .. did the US undergo the very same problems, at the same time, and to any comparable extent ? I RATHER THINK NOT.

So your comparison is deeply flawed.

No, it really doesn't. The facts don't lie, Reagan had it right.

Indeed, the facts DON'T lie. I've just given you some facts which until now you've ignored. The UK had FAR more extreme conditions to overcome in the period we're talking about.

So, FJ. 'Whoops' ... eh ? When you feel like it, you'll ABANDON your pro-Thatcherite pretentions for the sake of making a cheap - AND INVALID - self-serving point. And what's more .. one her adversaries would applaud ...

[aboutime]

Sir Drummond. Another day, and another reason to laugh at fj.

I imagine him sitting at home. Staring at his Monitor, typing away. Arguing with HIMSELF. Trying to convince himself how intelligent he only THINKS he is....then Loses the argument. So, in his anger at not being able to WIN against himself.

He comes here, and we all get to laugh at him.

[Drummond]

Sir Drummond. Another day, and another reason to laugh at fj.

I imagine him sitting at home. Staring at his Monitor, typing away. Arguing with HIMSELF. Trying to convince himself how intelligent he only THINKS he is....then Loses the argument. So, in his anger at not being able to WIN against himself.

He comes here, and we all get to laugh at him.

Not only that, but did you notice that at one point he even went so far as to attack Lady Thatcher's own strategy, in the early years of her Premiership ??

... with ....

''Of course her austerity does explain your sky high unemployment rates during the 80's while the US was enjoying falling rates.'

How's that for the self-proclaimed 'Ultimate Thatcherite' .. ??

'.. Whoops' ... indeedy !!!

[Drummond]

Here's a little something that totally and utterly defies FJ's gloom-saturated prediction that UK is going the way of Greece ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...this-year.html

UK will be fastest growing economy in the G7 this year .. International Monetary Fund upgrades its forecast for UK growth by more than any other advanced economy ....

The United Kingdom will be the fastest growing major economy this year, as stable inflation and lower unemployment keeps Britain on track to post its strongest growth since 2007, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).


The IMF upgraded its forecasts for UK growth on Tuesday by more than any other advanced economy. It said cheaper credit and increased consumer confidence had helped the UK economy to "rebound more strongly than anticipated" over the past year.


The Fund now expects Britain to grow by 2.9pc this year, up from its forecast of 2.4pc in January and 1.9pc last October. By comparison, the IMF expects the US to grow by 2.8pc in 2014 and Canada to grow by 2.3pc, meaning Britain is projected to be the fastest growing economy in the G7.

FJ ... when you bungle, you don't stint on the effort ... !!!!