The Queen agrees to let Boris Johnson shut down Parliament...

[Kathianne]

You like the idea that Conservatives are going to run on the platform ‘vote for our leader who declared he had no confidence in himself’?

I can only say from the perspective of an observer, a not well informed one at that, it seems as reasonable as anything else going on at present.

While I lack Drummond's certainty on most things, the Parliament does seem out to derail the will of the people. It may be time to let the people speak.

[Drummond]

You like the idea that Conservatives are going to run on the platform ‘vote for our leader who declared he had no confidence in himself’?

I think it's funny, Noir. So, yes, in that particular sense, I like it.

Does it also not appeal to your sense of humour ? I strongly suspect that Boris would see the funny side of it ....

All that aside, though: what we have here is a PM with a titanic battle on his hands: one, Noir, where he's remaining loyal to a democratic mandate which so-called 'representative' MP's want to see him fail to deliver !! I think that the general public will appreciate his loyalty to the Referendum result, sufficiently so, at least, to give him the electoral majority he now badly needs just to do his job !

Bear in mind other factors: the public's disgust at Boris's treatment, of course .. MP's disregard for representing The People .. and the spectre of possibly seeing Corbyn in power, leading an anti-Semitic Party, offering a hard-Left leadership from an individual who was once an IRA sympathiser, and who's happily shared a public platform with Hamas spokespersons !!

[Noir]

I can only say from the perspective of an observer, a not well informed one at that, it seems as reasonable as anything else going on at present.

While I lack Drummond's certainty on most things, the Parliament does seem out to derail the will of the people. It may be time to let the people speak.

We are governed by a representative parliamentary democracy. Not direct democracy.

Imagine someone saying that the Electoral College derailed the ‘will of the American people’ because Trump ended up president rather than Clinton who got a few million more votes.

[Drummond]

I can only say from the perspective of an observer, a not well informed one at that, it seems as reasonable as anything else going on at present.

While I lack Drummond's certainty on most things, the Parliament does seem out to derail the will of the people. It may be time to let the people speak.

Unfortunately .. letting the People speak, isn't the issue (the loudest anti-Brexiteers clamour for a second Referendum. Or yet a third .. or as many as it'll take, to get the 'correct' result ..).

What the Left doesn't require is silence from people. What it requires is loud voices that'll always say what they require to be said.

My certainty on issues comes from extensive experience telling me I'm right, Kath. Don't imagine that I leap to views and conclusions on a whim: I'm no 'hothead' bigot. I first satisfy myself that my thinking is sound.

A lifetime spent living in a society that was once in danger of tearing itself apart through over-deference to Left-wing militancy taught me a considerable amount. I know what I know from proof of its being true.

[Kathianne]

We are governed by a representative parliamentary democracy. Not direct democracy.

Imagine someone saying that the Electoral College derailed the ‘will of the American people’ because Trump ended up president rather than Clinton who got a few million more votes.

You do not have a written Constitution-for better or worse. While I prefer what the Framers set up here, you have what you have.

[Kathianne]

Unfortunately .. letting the People speak, isn't the issue (the loudest anti-Brexiteers clamour for a second Referendum. Or yet a third .. or as many as it'll take, to get the 'correct' result ..).

What the Left doesn't require is silence from people. What it requires is loud voices that'll always say what they require to be said.

My certainty on issues comes from extensive experience telling me I'm right, Kath. Don't imagine that I leap to views and conclusions on a whim: I'm no 'hothead' bigot. I first satisfy myself that my thinking is sound.

A lifetime spent living in a society that was once in danger of tearing itself apart through over-deference to Left-wing militancy taught me a considerable amount. I know what I know from proof of its being true.

Again, just an outside observation that is influenced by what I read here; it does seem if the people, again, tell Parliament to heed their directive, their patience is wearing thin.

[Drummond]

Again, just an outside observation that is influenced by what I read here; it does seem if the people, again, tell Parliament to heed their directive, their patience is wearing thin.

Opinion is polarised. That's the biggest problem. In the 2016 Referendum, we had 52% vote for Brexit, compared with 48% against it. So there are many people (no doubt a great many Lefties amongst them) who'd shout for the 'Remain in the EU' cause.

Those 'Remainers' take on board the viewpoint that Noir is happy with; namely, that as we have a Parliamentary democracy, the authority Parliament wields doesn't somehow 'deserve' to be challenged. So, if Parliament contrives to put a stop to Boris, and has the votes, and legislative latitude, to do so (it was granted that, last week), the 'Parliamentary democracy' we operate seizes control, rides roughshod over other democracy around, and just dictates to everybody.

It's currently trying to dictate to our Prime Minister, using force of law to make him break his pledge to answer to The People's wishes.

... and do I take it that Noir approves of this seizure of power, and its being wielded as it is ?

My view is that, 'Parliamentary Democracy' or not, the central principle of voter representation is being sidelined, as if the general population's democratic wishes are rendered irrelevant. MP's inhabit the House because THEY WERE PLACED THERE, BY THE ELECTORATE, TO REPRESENT THOSE WHO VOTED FOR THEM. Yet ... that part of the equation is now absent. MP's are just following their own agendas .. and Boris's higher imperative, to be loyal to The People, is suffering sheer abuse.

The 'upper hand' in all of this, even IF this is under Opposition control right now (a big 'if') ... won't be, forever. Short of an actual coup being enacted, we will have our General Election. When we do, those defying public opinion will be forced to regret it. Big time.

See ....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...es-uk-politics

Jeremy Corbyn support plummets as Boris Johnson snatches 14 point lead in new poll

BORIS JOHNSON’s most tumultuous week yet as prime minister has culminated in a shock poll showing the Tories enjoying a 14 point lead over Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour.

The Conservative leader’s hardball tactics and his “do or die” Brexit pledge are proving popular with voters, with 35 percent of respondents throwing their support behind his party ahead of Labour’s 21 percent. The boost for Mr Johnson comes after he said this week he would "rather be dead in a ditch” than ask the EU for a further Brexit extension after Parliament passed a bill preventing a hard exit on October 31. During an interview on Sky News’ Sophy Ridge on Sunday Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said the prime minister will go to court to challenge the order and insisted the government would not break the law.

The YouGov ballot conducted between September 5 and 6 for The Sunday Times gave the Liberal Democrats, led by Jo Swinson, 19 percent of the vote while Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party was on 12 percent.

It showed support for Labour had fallen by four points since an earlier poll on September 2-3, with the Lib Dems and Brexit Party mopping up the votes while backing for the Tories remained the same.

So far Mr Johnson has shown no signs he is prepared to abandon his key campaign pledge to deliver Brexit by Halloween with or without a deal.

[Kathianne]

I've been reading here that support for Brexit has also risen, according to polls.

[Kathianne]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...l-still-happen

OPINIONThere will still be an election in the UK, and Brexit will still happen
by Dan Hannan
| September 04, 2019 06:51 PM

...

[Drummond]

I've been reading here that support for Brexit has also risen, according to polls.

Perhaps I should widen my sampling of our media, then (or at least, watch less of the BBC's output). I've seen no polls saying that. In fact, I don't recall seeing any poll on that subject recently -- it's all been about Boris, lurching from 'disaster' to 'disaster'.

In any case, our polls tend to not be very accurate. Our Mrs May relied on them, to persuade her that our 2017 election was worthwhile, to increase her Parliamentary majority. Instead .. she crippled it.

John Major confounded all our polls, when he won his election, in '92.

Anyway .. if you're right, it's very good news. If nothing else, I think that Labour will pay dearly for what they're trying to do to Boris.

[Drummond]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...l-still-happen

It's just an opinion piece (and its author isn't a neutral observer in all this). We'll see if his opinion pans out, in time.

[Kathianne]

It's just an opinion piece (and its author isn't a neutral observer in all this). We'll see if his opinion pans out, in time.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...68053212801911

[Drummond]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...68053212801911

Fair enough, as far as that goes. Though I note its emphasis seems to be a 'Which is worse ?' question, rather than one I'd prefer .. namely, 'Which will do us good'.

Ah, well ....

Your source also confirms this ...

https://www.politico.eu/article/fren...-things-stand/

Brussels won’t grant the U.K. a Brexit extension beyond October 31 if circumstances remain the same, Jean-Yves Le Drian, France's foreign minister, said Sunday.

“The British must tell us what they want,” he told Europe1 radio, Reuters reported. “We are not going to do this [grant an extension] every three months.”

This helps illustrate just how delusional Boris's opposition really are.

[Noir]

The real punchline for the joke that is Brexit will involve the EU trying to get rid of us.

[Drummond]

The real punchline for the joke that is Brexit will involve the EU trying to get rid of us.

Judging by Macron's attitude, I'd say there was a certain accuracy to that ...

.... which only goes to show how stupidly power-drunk the likes of Corbyn really is. He assumes he has power to influence events to his (not The People; HIS) liking. In non-delusional reality, his wishes are subordinate to the foreign powers running the EU.