Protect & Serve

[jimnyc]

go back reread and I edited that.

the thought i was going for was.. you have EVEN LESS concern for those killed by cops.
But i worded it poorly.

Simply untrue. I'll be one of the 1st to condemn the police if they fucked up. I'll be on of the 1st to offer sympathies and such. I always look at each one on a case by case basis. I can go back and prove this, but... Are you - again - implying that I'm racist, because of some perceived lack of concern towards people shot by police? I have the same amount of concern for all people shot wrongly, black or white or whatever the hell color they are.

Again - case by case basis, each event looked at singularly. If a legit shooting, I have zero sympathy. If the cop fucked up, I'm usually one of the first to admit as much (not the first to post it admittedly, but sometimes). I always have concern for folks killed wrongly by the police. Should I find a few and quote them for some sort of proof?

The concern should be for those 2 cities, and I simply don't see it.

[Abbey Marie]

By the laughter and joking someone might think you both don't have a real concern for all the death and harm done by civilians and even less by cops.
Or that you just want to use others deaths suffering as a debating point.
thanks for your productive input.

But i don't understand why people won't acknowledge the difference between crooks and gang members killing people. and it being addressed as outright as crime (and the conferences, workshops, neighborhood meeting, church outreach, programs etc etc over the year that Don't go in the news that I've posted about before but somehow you fail to mention.)
And SOME Cops that are PAID and trained to handle weapons and deescalated problem, to protect people and , act according to people rights.
But who act instead like bullies, kill, maim and abuse their power and they are treated as if they've done Nothing WRONG. becasuethey are police.

seems to me there's a clear distinction.

One is considered a strait up common criminal by ALL.
The other is a criminal working under the cover of a badge, paid, trained and given a weapon and authority by the local citizens. given social, legal and political cover to continue unless exposed thoroughly.

Seems like an EASY distinction to make.
Seems like a problem EVERYONE should be concerned about.
Seems like a problem honest people wouldn't want to dodge, or dismiss WHILE dealing the the other issues as well.

It's not an ETHIER OR.

So, one "lol" and I'm a heartless racist beyotch? C'mon Rev, I don't think I treat you like that.

Anyway, it was a small show of appreciation for Jim's sarcasm. Fj and Noir aren't the only ones allowed to use humor, are they? I think Jim deserves that right, too.

[Gunny]

go back reread and I edited that.

the thought i was going for was.. you have EVEN LESS concern for those killed by cops.
But i worded it poorly.

And I posted previously, you're too busy thinking about what you want to say next to listen. I don't like cops. I stay away from them. Works like a charm.

There's no "lack of concern". But should there not be concern for the cops too? Look at Ferguson. This histrionic shit cost that cop his career and he was justified. Too late after they hanged him out to dry. What about HIM? HIS family?

No one's arguing bad cops aren't bad. The argument is making it look like ALL cops are bad. That's crap.

[revelarts]

So, one "lol" and I'm a heartless racist beyotch? C'mon Rev, I don't think I treat you like that.

Anyway, it was a small show of appreciation for Jim's sarcasm. Fj and Noir aren't the only ones allowed to use humor, are they? I think Jim deserves that right, too.

Abbey it's fine. but it just seem that everyone comes to this thread to Condemn the victims or indigo and I.
Few seem very concerned about the the corrupt cops or bad system Or EVEN DISCUSSING the suggestions and examples of BETTER SYSTEMS.

but there's time to joke about dead people. and come up with and read alternate things to be concerned about INSTEAD of this.

I'm not saying your ..what you said.. or Jim . But i suspect if i made LOLs or jokes about dead cops or military some people's heads would explode here.

but here the thing, i just Don't get all the hostility against people talking about REALLY BAD cops!
how many time do i have to say NOT ALL COPS ARE BAD!.
what about that is hard to get.
Most cops are GREAT.
And some and some whole depts can be FAR better .
and SOME NEED TO GO TO JAIL.
is that wrong to say?
why do i have defend that position as if I"VE committed a crime in voicing it?

[jimnyc]

And I posted previously, you're too busy thinking about what you want to say next to listen. I don't like cops. I stay away from them. Works like a charm.

There's no "lack of concern". But should there not be concern for the cops too? Look at Ferguson. This histrionic shit cost that cop his career and he was justified. Too late after they hanged him out to dry. What about HIM? HIS family?

No one's arguing bad cops aren't bad. The argument is making it look like ALL cops are bad. That's crap.

I'm sure most people on the board see me as very pro police. The majority of time I am defending them and their actions. Again, for me it's a case by case basis. It's not about being pro police or a police hater, but for me it's usually about the rule of law. I hold myself to a different standard though.

I would argue that if ANYONE on the board had a reason, or reasons to not like the police, that would be me!! Thing is though, 99% of the time I deserved it, well maybe like 90%. It started off by driving like an idiot, and when you do that you might get pulled over. Then I act like a jerk off when the cop comes back to my car holding a ticket. But who's fault was it? That time, right in front of him I crumpled up the ticket and tossed it over my shoulder into the back of the car, acting like a tough guy! LOL The cop was like "I don't care, do whatever you want, but you'll lose your license if you don't show up and/or pay the fine" or something like that.

I was "profiled" in the area I grew up. Often it was because I drove a very old nasty looking puke green colored van. This thing SCREAMED "drugs", or worse. Add in that I had REAL long hair back then. So pulled over a ton, and a lot of those times I would get searched.

Then more driving like an asshole, even after upgrading from the van! Funny how they still "abuse" you and ticket you for speeding, whether in a piece of shit, or in a new and small geeky car, and wearing a suit on the way to work.

Made it over 12 points in NJ and lost license. Had to attend some goofy class to get it restored and have 3 points taken off my records. Then repeated that process like a year later!!

Then I got married, and smarter. Same as you say, I simply stayed away from them, as in being smarter, driving better and not breaking laws. Ok, I think it was only 1 more speeding ticket. But I've currently got 0 points and haven't had to really deal with the police because I am friends with a few. But funny how when I see a cop I still get really nervous as if I'm potentially about to go to jail!

More to the story than just speeding of course, I was a bad boy for a bit there, but nothing THAT bad.

What the hell am I rambling on about here? I had to scroll back up to see what I'm replying to and what point I was trying to make. I don't think I made much sense here, did I? LOL and I swear, no, I am not stoned!!

[jimnyc]

Abbey it's fine. but it just seem that everyone comes to this thread to Condemn the victims or indigo and I.

Truth? If you'll believe me?

I was on "Who's online" and saw that Gunny was viewing this thread, and that's why I popped in here today. I wasn't looking to condemn anyone. Again, for me, it's a case by case basis, so you'll only see condemnation towards the guilty party from me.

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey it's fine. but it just seem that everyone comes to this thread to Condemn the victims or indigo and I.
Few seem very concerned about the the corrupt cops or bad system Or EVEN DISCUSSING the suggestions and examples of BETTER SYSTEMS.

but there's time to joke about dead people. and come up with and read alternate things to be concerned about INSTEAD of this.

I'm not saying your ..what you said.. or Jim . But i suspect if i made LOLs or jokes about dead cops or military some people heads would explode here.

but here the thing, i just Don't get all the hostility against people talking about REALLY BAD cops!
how many time do i have to say NOT ALL COPS ARE BAD!.
what about that is hard to get.
Most cops are GREAT.
And some and some whole septs can be FAR better .
and SOME NEED TO GO TO JAIL.
is that wrong to say?
why do i have defend that position as if I"VE committed a crime in voicing it?

I'll answer your question, speaking solely for me.

The police are about all that stands between us and chaos. And they put their lives on the line.
Yes, they have bad apples, but I give them a ton of respect and credit for those two reasons.

And after Dallas, I think it is irresponsible to keep portraying police as murderers.

[revelarts]

I'll answer your question, speaking solely for me.
The police are about that stand between us and chaos. And they put their lives on the line.
Yes, they have bad apples, but I give them a ton of respect and credit for those two reasons.
And after Dallas, I think it is irresponsible to keep portraying police as murderers.

ok but i have to say it seems you... and nearly everyone else here... has had a big problem with this thread long before Dallas.

But i have to ask, If a specific police office IS an outright murderer, should it be mentioned here or anywhere Abbey?

[Abbey Marie]

ok but i have to say it seems you... and nearly everyone else here... has had a big problem with this thread long before Dallas.

But i have to ask, If a specific police office IS an outright murderer, should it be mentioned here or anywhere Abbey?

Of course. We all post about what matters to us. But don't be surprised when people feel the need to defend the police in return. They do a very difficult job, risk their lives, and have to take all sorts of crap in the process. I would also suggest that it's not so bad to give them a break.

[jimnyc]

ok but i have to say it seems you... and nearly everyone else here... has had a big problem with this thread long before Dallas.

But i have to ask, If a specific police office IS an outright murderer, should it be mentioned here or anywhere Abbey?

Of course! And no one would, or has said otherwise!! I think everyone agreed that the prick who was nailed shooting the guy in the back should be 100% fully held accountable (Michael Slager). And for me, that means up to and including the death penalty.

[Kathianne]

Rev, I'm going to jump in here without quoting anyone. I have long ties to police in Chicago and suburbs. My uncle was a lieutenant in Chicago during '68 riots. My brother was on a suburban force, (pop 50k) for just about 30 years. Uncle was 'old school' meaning bad old days in Chicago, yet he himself was very involved with the kids from the districts he'd worked on when he was on the streets. He didn't have kids, so both my aunt and he were like our favorites, they'd do anything for us. He also was like that for kids in the community. When he was retiring after 40 years, a bunch of folks showed up at his party-including kids with cards and telling stories. Their parents thanked him, also telling stories about how he'd bought food, one an old used car to keep a job, would help kids with homework, etc. Most of these folks were from the West Side of Chicago and the Shakespeare District. Neither great neighborhoods even back when. Some of those 'kids' were my age when my uncle died, 4 of them showed up for his wake.

My brother had his bachelor's when he started as a cop-in a city that required a bachelor's or military service. He was on patrol for about 3 years, then became a detective. He'd also completed his MS. He became juvie detective, spent some time in the high school. Became a member of regional advisory force, SWAT, and started teaching SWAT and police driving at U of I. Taught police management at Northwestern. Also was a sergeant, lieutenant, then deputy chief. He turned down being chief-way too many headaches and politics. Truth is, other than the education and more promotions, pretty much was like my uncle regarding working with community.

He's so glad he's not part of it anymore. He feels like the police have no choice now, they are going to be reactive for the foreseeable future. To be proactive is asking for problems that they can't afford. What this means is that they will be vigilant in stopping and arresting when indicated, but will avoid dealing with things that may be questionable and if they have a judgement call to make, it will be to not get involved. Some will have unfortunate results for the community. Some may lead to kids that might have listened, to not have that voice warning them to move away, not toward trouble.

He would not recommend anyone to become a police officer today-indeed he spoke to both his son and my son about other ways to use their degrees in law enforcement-not in police work. That was 8 years ago, even before the shootings. That was heartbreaking for him, he'd been a recruiter for the department for nearly 20 years-now he just couldn't do it. He'd considered it a calling, much like teaching. He saw the best part of his job in prevention of crime, whether talking to homeowners or being in the schools. He worked a lot in the community to establish outlets for kids, especially teens that didn't fit well into sports and activities at the schools.

I don't think these were exceptions to the police, they were the norm. My brother's friends that are cops, several are chiefs in smaller suburbs, really run the same way. They want good relations with the community. They want to identify kids, especially boys that are having a hard time at home-to get some social services and to find some positive activities with adults that might keep them out of trouble.

There are bad cops, trust me, you wouldn't want to be around the bro when one slipped through the screenings. They have a year to get rid of bad cops without cause-keeping the union out of it for the most part. The three biggest problems? 1. lazy and wouldn't do what was needed, forget about above and beyond. 2. power crazy-they are attracted for the power over others, they figured out how to avoid in psych eval, which catches most. 3. corrupt-stealing and intimidating, related to 2., but in it for gain over power.

[Elessar]

It amazes me that when you guys get really frustrated you go to the ..
"pick up a weapon and stand on the wall" reply.

Verbal criticism does not phase me.

Hiding behind a keyboard and acting 'holier than thou' rankles me, and quite
a few others.

You think you are higher and holier than anyone else. Let me tell you, Buster...
your long-winded preaching and cut and paste rants are amusing at best.

[Elessar]

and there we go again.
no body knows nuthin but Gunny and Elesar.
everyone else should STHU and listen.

Can't take criticism even if it's pointed to FROM OTHER POLICE.
won't acknowledge praise unless it 24/7 say THANKS! and STHU .

sorry not going to happen.

Do you think I do not listen to LE complaints about others in
the same fraternity?

You are so stupid it is astounding. One my co-workers or people
steps over the line, they are going in front of the 'green cloth', i.e. - facing the C.O..

You have the luxury of hiding behind all that, preaching and rattling your spoon.

[Kathianne]

Verbal criticism does not phase me.

Hiding behind a keyboard and acting 'holier than thou' rankles me, and quite
a few others.

You think you are higher and holier than anyone else. Let me tell you, Buster...
your long-winded preaching and cut and paste rants are amusing at best.

I think Rev is very principled and he is extremely consistent. He is passionate in what he believes and yes, sometimes goes on a bit. However, 'holier than thou?' Not if you know him a bit. He's a very humble guy and seriously I think would do about anything for anyone. Like many of us, if you just catch him on the causes that rile him, you'll see him only one way.

[Elessar]

go back and read or listen to cops and get back to me with a comment.
don't worry about my personality.. I'm not looking for a date thanks.

So you revert to a silly insult. In over your head....again.

Cut and paste will not save you this time.