My disdain for the poor.

[loosecannon]

again I didn't say anything to you to which

first off ... it is a message board and i will post what i like....

seems to be a relevent response.

second ... in the context of the thread which is the disdain for the poor who choose to be poor and make poor choices and cause their own misery .... to say that disdain for the rich is equally valid ... is disingenuous

Oh the poor who

choose to be poor
make poor choices
cause their own misery

is the actual topic. How obvious. Sorry I missed that nuance.

So disdain for the rich who

choose to be rich
make bad choices
cause their own misery

is therefore out of bounds, as in "it is a message board and i will post what i like" doesn't apply.

[loosecannon]

apparently you misunderstood again.

When you said

my response was spot on....if you are going to project opinions onto me about what i do or do not know then turn about is fair play

well see you were wrong, I wasn't even talking about anything you said.

I was responding to Hobbit.

See how that works?

[manu1959]

again I didn't say anything to you to which seems to be a relevent response.



Oh the poor who

choose to be poor
make poor choices
cause their own misery

is the actual topic. How obvious. Sorry I missed that nuance.

So disdain for the rich who

choose to be rich
make bad choices
cause their own misery

is therefore out of bounds, as in "it is a message board and i will post what i like" doesn't apply.

so you agree then that the poor are poor by choice and the rich are rich by choice.....i was wondering when the light would come on...

[Hobbit]

We are not that far apart. I am for helping people who will take the responsibility for their lives at that point....who will recognize that they're being given a helping hand, a second chance......and apply their own efforts to better themselves.

If at that point, they continue the behavior that landed them in poverty....if they continue to pop out children like you pop toast out of the toaster....if they continue to do drugs, or gamble, or whatever......then I'm for cutting them loose and leaving them to their own devices.

But I know that we've all made mistakes in our lives...made some bad choices.....some of us suffer more than others for the same bad choices.

I believe in second chances. I believe in lending a helping hand through (may my tongue fall out of my mouth for saying it) government programs.

I guess that's why I'm a liberal.

And I believe in lending a helping hand through improved commerce and private donations, which is why I'm conservative. IMO, the best way to help those who help themselves is to give them a booming economy with lots of jobs, with private charities to pick up the slack. Because of the buraucratic nature of government programs, it is my belief that they will ultimately lead to a lazy lower class that is completely dependant on them.

[GW in Ohio]

And I believe in lending a helping hand through improved commerce and private donations, which is why I'm conservative. IMO, the best way to help those who help themselves is to give them a booming economy with lots of jobs, with private charities to pick up the slack. Because of the buraucratic nature of government programs, it is my belief that they will ultimately lead to a lazy lower class that is completely dependant on them.

I agree with you that a booming economy with lots of jobs is the best way to give people a hand up.

And I'm fine with private charities, also.

[avatar4321]

And I believe in lending a helping hand through improved commerce and private donations, which is why I'm conservative. IMO, the best way to help those who help themselves is to give them a booming economy with lots of jobs, with private charities to pick up the slack. Because of the buraucratic nature of government programs, it is my belief that they will ultimately lead to a lazy lower class that is completely dependant on them.

You don't have to believe it. We have plenty of proof in society.

I think its interesting that this thread was resurrected. It's a passionate topic.

I stand by my position. increasing the minimum wage will not benefit the woman in the article. Quite the opposite. It will perpetuate the problem. There are atleast a dozen things the woman and her family could change without much effort that would put them in a better position. How is it compassionate to increase minimum wage which doesn't fix the problem, patting ourselves on the back, and yet ignoring the major problems that can be fixed and that are so blatantly obvious?

This is why I am a conservative. Because liberal programs don't really benefit people. Its just a way for liberals to feel like they are doing something (usually with other peoples money) so they can praise how compassionate they are without really fixing the problem.

[5stringJeff]

There is no need to caricature or lampoon you guys as "fuck you" Republicans. You do it all yourselves.

95% of the poor are poor by choice? Oh, Jesus, some of you people are really something.

Now, there's no question that a percentage of the people who are poor are poor because they're too lazy or too addicted to better themselves.

But the vast majority of the poor are poor because of bad breaks, bad choices (like having too many children....you hold that against them, don't you?), or bad health. Are you going to say to them, "Tough shit.....you fucked up your life."

Okay, so some of you worked your way out of poverty. Good for you. A lot of people haven't, or can't for one reason or another, work their way out. You going to say to all of them, "You're out of luck; If I can do it, so can you"?

While I don't want to create permanent wards of the state, and I supported welfare reform, I don't want us as a society to turn our backs on the poor. For many of them, all they need is a hand up, to get back on their feet. I say we as a society should give these people a second chance.

We're not advocating turning our back on the poor. We're suggesting that many, if not most, poor people have made life choices that put them in their predicament, and that until they make the choice to get their lives back on track, we shouldn't be subsidizing their bad choices.

And BTW, public welfare isn't the only way to help out the poor. There are hundreds upon hundreds of private and/or religious charities that do more than throw money at poor people - they teach them how to make their lives better.

[loosecannon]

so you agree then that the poor are poor by choice and the rich are rich by choice.....i was wondering when the light would come on...

no, you are deflecting, poorly

[loosecannon]

increasing the minimum wage will not benefit the woman in the article. Quite the opposite. It will perpetuate the problem.

Yeah feeding the poor or more accurately allowing them to earn enough to eat definitely perpetuates the problem.

The problem of "those damned poor people".

Starving them is the solution as you suggest. And lawrd knows that makes the conservatives feel like they are compassionate. (if not imune to their own idiocy)

[loosecannon]

We're not advocating turning our back on the poor. We're suggesting that many, if not most, poor people have made life choices that put them in their predicament, and that until they make the choice to get their lives back on track, we shouldn't be subsidizing their bad choices.

But subsidizing the rich and the BA's bad choices is the standard of the neocons and Bushbots.

[5stringJeff]

Yeah feeding the poor or more accurately allowing them to earn enough to eat definitely perpetuates the problem.

The problem of "those damned poor people".

Starving them is the solution as you suggest. And lawrd knows that makes the conservatives feel like they are compassionate. (if not imune to their own idiocy)

Raising the minimum wage decreases the amount of people that an employer can pay, creating layoffs and increasing unemployment, which is generally bad for anyone, but especially poor people.

[loosecannon]

Raising the minimum wage decreases the amount of people that an employer can pay, creating layoffs and increasing unemployment, which is generally bad for anyone, but especially poor people.

No not according to Keynes theories about aggregate demand.

Accord to Keynes sound ideas raising the miniomum wage is the most effective way of stimulating the growth of the overall economy.

The poor will spend every penny within a week and all of that money will feed more business growth and end up creating MORE minimum wage jobs.

[manu1959]

no, you are deflecting, poorly

no ... i was repeating what you wrote....you, my dear friend, are now on a river in egypt

[OCA]

I'm into Darwin's survival of the fittest, if you are poor by no other circumstances then those which you created yourself then fuck you, i'm perfectly able to step around or over you on the street and pefectly able to call the meat wagon when you die from your own hand.

Now people who are poor or unaqble to support theirselves because of medical reasons such as physical or mental handicaps should be helped out but douchebags who become junkies, are lazy or are just too fucking ignorant to be of any benefit to theirselves or society should be evaluated to see if they are siphoning off of society more than they are putting in. Society's herd needs to be thinned out.

Think i'm over the top? Many people think like me, many people are sick of seeing the money they work hard for robbed from them by the government to hand out to deadbeat fucks who are perfectly able to earn for theirselves but too damn lazy to do so.

Circumstances such as those that happen to people who are involved in natural disasters? A time limit should be placed on government handouts to these people, I think six months is an ample amount of time to get your shit together, can't get it together in six months? Tough shit, pound sand. Strict controls should be placed on these handouts too lest you get douchebags like the idiots in chocolate city buying Rolex watches and dildos with their government issued debit cards.

Fuck any type of welfare including WIC, it should be abolished, once the siphoners die off America will flourish.

[OCA]

No not according to Keynes theories about aggregate demand.

Accord to Keynes sound ideas raising the miniomum wage is the most effective way of stimulating the growth of the overall economy.

The poor will spend every penny within a week and all of that money will feed more business growth and end up creating MORE minimum wage jobs.

Yeah, exactly what America needs, more minimum wage jobs.