Discussion about Martin/Zimmerman debate

[Mr. P]

I'm sure you would never believe an innocent high school student was murdered by a paranoid, racist nut. Zimmerman was previously fired from a security guard job for using too much force. (He picked a woman up and threw her). Zimmerman had other violent episodes prior to killing Trayvon Martin. Former co-workers describe Zimmerman as a "Jekyl and Hyde".

Zimmerman attacked a police officer, and he has a DV incident in his past.

Do you routinely judge/convict on hearsay or a persons past without all the facts of the current situation? Pretty mindless, don't ya think?
Are you blonde by chance?

[Wind Song]

Do you routinely judge/convict on hearsay or a persons past without all the facts of the current situation? Pretty mindless, don't ya think?
Are you blonde by chance?

I've not convicted anyone on hearsay. I have the same information you have and a completely different view of who caused this death.

This law of Stand Your Ground is wrong and should be overturned. There is plenty of evidence that Zimmerman had problems with violence prior to killing Martin.

[Nukeman]

I've not convicted anyone on hearsay. I have the same information you have and a completely different view of who caused this death.

This law of Stand Your Ground is wrong and should be overturned. There is plenty of evidence that Zimmerman had problems with violence prior to killing Martin.

I have to ask you WHY is the law at fault???? Please try and answer at least one guestion???? You honestly believe it should be illegal to defend yourself???? Are you really saying that???

[Mr. P]

I have to ask you WHY is the law at fault???? Please try and answer at least one guestion???? You honestly believe it should be illegal to defend yourself???? Are you really saying that???

What he said.

[Wind Song]

I have to ask you WHY is the law at fault???? Please try and answer at least one guestion???? You honestly believe it should be illegal to defend yourself???? Are you really saying that???

Yes. I think the Florida Law is wrong. It's wrong because it goes too far. Zimmerman went after Martin without cause. Martin wasn't threatening him. He was a 17 year old kid walking home from 7/11 and talking on his cell phone to his GF. Zimmerman should have done what Neighborhood Watch people are supposed to do. Make the call and get the hell out of the way.

Zimmerman was not in his own home, Martin was not committing any crime. Martin had the civil right to be on that street. A sensible outcome would have been to arrest Zimmerman and charge him with manslaughter. If Trayvon became scared and angry at being stalked and falsely accused, I can understand that. Zimmerman is lying, IMO. According to the GF who was on the phone with Trayvon at the time, she could hear Zimmerman approach him, heard his voice reported that the headset get knocked off Martin's head and disconnected.

No one with a "jekyl and hyde" personality should carry a concealed weapon. Zimmerman was fired from a security job for excess force. He was completely inappropriate in his actions as Neighborhood Watch. He should be charged with manslaughter.

[Dilloduck]

I'm sure you would never believe an innocent high school student was murdered by a paranoid, racist nut. Zimmerman was previously fired from a security guard job for using too much force. (He picked a woman up and threw her). Zimmerman had other violent episodes prior to killing Trayvon Martin. Former co-workers describe Zimmerman as a "Jekyl and Hyde".

Zimmerman attacked a police officer, and he has a DV incident in his past.

Are you channeling Trayvon right now ? What's his side of the story ?

[Wind Song]

Are you channeling Trayvon right now ? What's his side of the story ?

Hi Didlo,

I don't know his side of the story, but it's easily inferred from the facts. IMO, Trayvon Martin was killed for being a black kid taking a walk. How dare he!

[Dilloduck]

Hi Didlo,

I don't know his side of the story, but it's easily inferred from the facts.

Only by bleeding heart liberals

[Wind Song]

Only by bleeding heart liberals

Yes, I'm proud to be a bleeding heart liberal. It beats being a narrow minded red neck racist.

[Dilloduck]

Yes, I'm proud to be a bleeding heart liberal. It beats being a narrow minded red neck racist.

I'm proud of you too WS. Carry your banner high.

[Wind Song]

I'm proud of you too WS. Carry your banner high.

You bet I will.


Given the facts we know it appears that the only one who had a right to stand his ground and use deadly force was Trayvon Martin himself. George Zimmerman had no right to use any force at all let alone deadly force against Trayvon Martin.

“Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”

Zimmerman chased Travon. Zimmerman was arguably the illegal aggressor and it was only Trayvon who had the right to self-defend.

Trayvon had to be “in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or he had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle.

Zimmerman had to know or have reason to believe that an “unlawful and forcible entry” or “unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.” Absolutely no evidence of that here either. In Zimmerman’s own words Trayvon was just walking around and ‘looked suspicious.”

Trayvon had no duty to retreat if he had a right to be where he was; but it was wise for a skinny kid to back away from a 240 lb gorilla advancing on him in the night.

Zimmerman became the aggressor packing a semi-automatic weapon and chased down a skinny defenseless kid. To suggest that Trayvon Martin was wrong to fight back is so disgusting as to make sane people vomit.

Zimmerman created the very danger he complained of, he was not just standing his ground, he willfully used his vigilantly watchdog status as a bald pretext to pack a concealed gun and go out to perpetuate a racially motivated hate crime against a defenseless child armed only with a pack of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea. ("those assholes always get away). Zimmerman was determined that Martin would not get away.

There seems to be probable cause to believe Zimmerman committed a crime, that he is a grave danger to the community, and that he should be arrested and held without bail until such time he faces a jury of his peers.

The owners of the complex may be held liable for gross negligence by allowing untrained but deadly armed vigilantes to patrol the premises. They may all be held civilly liable to the Martin family.

[DragonStryk72]

I'm sure you would never believe an innocent high school student was murdered by a paranoid, racist nut. Zimmerman was previously fired from a security guard job for using too much force. (He picked a woman up and threw her). Zimmerman had other violent episodes prior to killing Trayvon Martin. Former co-workers describe Zimmerman as a "Jekyl and Hyde".

Zimmerman attacked a police officer, and he has a DV incident in his past.

Paranoid? Yes. Racist? No. you have no proof of the second, and you literally ignored my earlier post to yet again re-assert the same disproved point.

[DragonStryk72]

You bet I will.


Given the facts we know it appears that the only one who had a right to stand his ground and use deadly force was Trayvon Martin himself. George Zimmerman had no right to use any force at all let alone deadly force against Trayvon Martin.

No one on here is arguing this. Stop trying to make it seem like they are.

“Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”


No one on here is arguing this. Stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Zimmerman chased Travon. Zimmerman was arguably the illegal aggressor and it was only Trayvon who had the right to self-defend.

No one on here is arguing this. Stop trying to make it seem like they are.

Trayvon had to be “in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or he had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle.

Zimmerman had to know or have reason to believe that an “unlawful and forcible entry” or “unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.” Absolutely no evidence of that here either. In Zimmerman’s own words Trayvon was just walking around and ‘looked suspicious.”

No one on here is arguing this. Stop trying to make it seem like they are.


Trayvon had no duty to retreat if he had a right to be where he was; but it was wise for a skinny kid to back away from a 240 lb gorilla advancing on him in the night.

A 5'7 gorilla? Versus Martin's 6'-6'2" height?

Zimmerman became the aggressor packing a semi-automatic weapon and chased down a skinny defenseless kid. To suggest that Trayvon Martin was wrong to fight back is so disgusting as to make sane people vomit.

Except that Zimmerman didn't pull the gun until after he started losing the fight. Still makes him a coward for pulling a gun in a fist fight, but still does not reflect this sentence of yours.

Zimmerman created the very danger he complained of, he was not just standing his ground, he willfully used his vigilantly watchdog status as a bald pretext to pack a concealed gun and go out to perpetrate a racially motivated hate crime against a defenseless child armed only with a pack of Skittles and a bottle of iced tea. ("those assholes always get away). Zimmerman was determined that Martin would not get away.

He most likely would have had the concealed carry permit before the neighborhood watch bit, but again, no one is arguing that Zimmerman wasn't an aggressor. However, there is absolutely no evidence of racism, none. No, calling someone a punk or an asshole is not racist.

There seems to be probable cause to believe Zimmerman committed a crime, that he is a grave danger to the community, and that he should be arrested and held without bail until such time he faces a jury of his peers.

The owners of the complex may be held liable for gross negligence by allowing untrained but deadly armed vigilantes to patrol the premises. They may all be held civilly liable to the Martin family.

For what? The owners of the complex have no control over Zimmerman's concealed carry permit, not that he knowingly ignored the 911 operator.

However, No one is arguing that Zimmerman was right to shoot Martin, not one person. They are, however, arguing that Zimmerman was not clearly a racist, which he wasn't.

The only point anyone is arguing is your continued assertion without evidence of his racism. So go ahead and set down all the other crap, and deal with the argument that people are actually making. You could start by responding to this and my previous post on the matter. that or back down, admit you were wrong, and let it go.

[Kathianne]

If there's a lesson to be learned here, murder cases-voluntary or not, shouldn't be argued in the media or other venues other than the courts.

That's not going to stop us or anyone else on boards, media, etc. We'd all be better off if it did, but never mind that.

So, MY PERSONAL ENLIGHTENMENT: I was wrong to thing Zimmerman a racist and the kid only a victim.

Truth is, I may have been right. I may have been wrong. At this point in time, my tendency would be to say that Zimmerman should not have been as aggressive as he was. The kid wasn't as innocent as portrayed, or likely to have been acting. Yes, I know these conclusions are based on media reports, but that is where we are at. Including NOW the facts of what the dispatcher said and responses, along with the GF's accounting.

Truth is I think Zimmerman would have done better to call 911 and have bowed out. With that said, he didn't. He kept on this kid including the GF phone conversation. From all I've read, it then became Trayvon that chose a confrontation with the one pursing him. Big mistake on both their parts. While Trayvon had youth and strength on his side, Zimmerman had the gun. When T went for it, was over. What transpired between the decision of T to blindside, knock down, pummel we'll never know. Even if arrested, tried and convicted, the truth will no be complete to anyone's satisfaction.

[jimnyc]

Why? All I've ever seen you do is ignore facts.

What would make your general assertion stronger is to provide a specific example of a time when I ignored a fact. Use quotes.

There was only ONE direct eyewitness, and the evidence in the case all points to his version being true along with Zimmerman. "Experts" have stated the screaming had a 48% of being Zimmerman, but didn't rule out the possibility. I don't remember what they said about the possibility of the screaming being Trayvon, what did they say about that, WS? Zimmerman following or not following Martin doesn't mean anything no matter how you look at it.

You never want to discuss the gash on the back of Zimmerman's head, or his broken nose, nor the grass stains and wet on his backside from Trayvon likely being on top of him. Nor do you like to discuss the fact that one person actually watched Trayvon beating the crap out of Zimmerman while on top of him, totally backing up what Zimmerman has stated.

There is a lot to criticize Zimmerman for, but in Florida it would appear that all of his actions that evening were legal, whether you disagree with them or not. There's also a lot to criticize about Martin, but you never want to discuss that.

There are several witness accounts. I see you only believe the one that supports Zimmerman.

There's an example right from the very thread where you deny ignoring facts. I took the time to politely point out various things that you conveniently ignore, and you conveniently ignore them - and you do so because they blow HUGE holes in your defense of Martin.