Originally Posted by
Elessar
Holy Cow! Where did you ever get that idea from?
You do not read....just gloss over and find some retort likely found on the 'net.
If You are so concerned with rape and suicide, mend your own whining civilian
fences first. It is not a military problem - it is a social problem and that line was
a deflective low-blow. I thought better of you. Perhaps I was wrong.
ah well… maybe so
But look Elessar, i complement the military where it works but i do not idolize it. It has strengths and weaknesses. and Yes rape is a human problem and its not handled well in civilian life very well. But it seems that for decades now the military has had a even a more difficult time dealing with it honestly and effectively. Maybe it was a "low blow" but I have to admit i’d just gotten a bit tired of the continued droning on an on in this thread with stuff like—
---we in the military know better than you "fat" "lazy" "borg" "civilians" "whining protesters" and if you'd would "listen" and "do what we say" since we've 'Been There, Done That!' instead of "interjecting yourself in arguments you don't belong in" because you "obviously, haven't been in a split second decision matrix" then everything would be great!…— commentary
Look I get that you guys LOVE the military and think that the people and training give you the clear edge in violent situations. (if not make you come across as if you think you're overall and in general better than others)
I'm just not ..maybe this a low blow as well.... I'm not a military cult member. In general my psyche just tends to see good, bad and the ugly in everything. (And for the record again, I've had uncles, cousins, in the military and worked with full duty, reserved and retired military people all my life. Air force, navy, army and marines. One of my closest friends is retired military. Many days as a kid i spent at the VA hospital since my mom was a nurse there and we needed to wait for her on VA grounds with Viet Nam, Korean and WWII vets and families. (those WW2 guys had the best stories BTW) So i'm not unsympathetic or completely unfamiliar with military issues and personnel.)
And I don't think anyone here can point to ONE place where I've been dismissive of military personnel’s opinions calling them "borg" or brainwashed or possibly PTSS addled or militarily narrow-minded, simply because they've happen NOT to be civilians. I've tried addressed your points with law, logic and facts .
you've been pretty clear in your replies but you've frankly DODGED several of my questions and slapped Gunny on the back with thanks at his personal digs and contentless --we're military i just know better--- --i done looked um in the eye-- comments.
An you've ignored the fact that others in the military, the FBI, Police and Yes even people who are civilians might have some valid options. Rather than address those ideas you and Gunny keep trying to play the —I’m in the military and your not— card.
you've made several points about "split second" reactions. OK fine I've acknowledge the split second life and death opinions are best handled by those with a certain training. In my mind that's a given. But the thread is about assessing POTENTIAL threats that may be developing SLOWLY and with few clues. And having a "MATRIX" to determine who might be a threat and what are the best LEGAL PREVENTATIVE STEPS to take to deal with them.
Some seem to think every suspected "Arab" should be shot or deported at any hint of trouble.
Early on in the thread you said
“Why possibly compromise the welfare of everyone in a flight when
someone fits the image of what is known to be a terrorist that will
blow the damn plane up and kill everyone?”
I've been trying to get a CLEAR answer on IF/or what your looking for BEYOND the fact someones an “ARAB”.
and what STEPS you'd take ...assuming it's not a SPLIT second scenario. Do you stay within the constitution? Am i being “obtuse” in referring to it in "real world" police work and investigations. At this point that's the impression you've given me. that ONLY military training should be used that Constitution is NOT a factor. In my mind if MILITARY training and tactics are the ONLY factor then it sounds like you want MILITARY RULE. NOT constitutional rule or horrible “civilian” rule.
is that too cut and dry?
I like the 2nd amendment in the "real world". I suspect Im not being "idealistic" about that.
But when i mention the constitution in regard to terrorism somehow some think i've become "impractical" and idealistic". And the constitution is poo pooed, ignored and replaced with military tactics, rules, orders and "chain of command". By way of clear definition that IS Military Rule or Dictatorship in my mind. No matter what euphemism some might apply. Seems to me people should be honest about what they are promoting if it’s not REAL WORLD constitutionalism and the bill of rights then it’s something else. Earlier you mentioned that certain things were “privileges” and not “rights” well that's debatable but if you and others assume we MUST IGNORE constitutional rights by default as “impractical” then what legal grounds are you using for your actions? Military rules of engagement... which is De facto Military law dictatorship. It may be starkly put but realistically that’s what it is.
What exactly am i missing.
Last edited by revelarts; 05-19-2016 at 12:12 PM.
It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God. 1 Peter 2:16