Which is more irrational? :)

[mundame]

Sure there are, and many of the new atheist have said as much. Not framed in the way of the question though.
they'd probably say they are offend by the IDEA of God, the God of the Bible specifically and of gods in general.

I don't think anybody cares about the IDEA of God. If people believe in something and don't bother others about it, what's to resent? People can go sit on stylites in the desert and believe all they like, for all of me. As long as the taxpayer doesn't have to support them.

What people resent is intrusion and efforts to control them. Or replace their beliefs entirely, like the Muslims want to do.

As far as people who beieve in God begin "pushy"
I'd like some everyday examples of atheist that have felt pushed by Christians. I'm talking personally.

Is being Pushed someone inviting you to Church. (horror of horrors how can u stand it)

Invitations are okay....assuming they aren't knocking on the door to do it. That would be wrong and pushy. The question is, who is it for? For you, to build up your church and your adherents, or for the person because you think they might like to join? If you are knocking on the door of a stranger's home, you are being intrusive and rude.

Is being Pushed someone yelling on a street corner about heaven and hell?

Omigod, yes!! I remember forever ago in Old Town, Chicago, they had a Bible College near this very popular area in the '60s, and this sweating, fat, disgusting guy on the street corner would yell about heaven and hell and call all the women walking by harlots!! Me, he presumably included!!! What a bad man. That was one of the worse things I've ever seen about religion. I suppose he was crazy. He was certainly evil.

Is being Pushed someone knocking on your door and offering to sit down and talk about their faith?

That's wrong, that's intrusive, that's incredibly immoral!!! I never allow that sort of bad behavior anymore. I can't believe all these terrible Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and god-knows-what-all do this sort of thing. It's just unbelievably wrong to actually come to someone's house and ring their doorbell and try to convert their souls! I mean, what business is my soul to anyone else?? They should mind their own business. I think there is getting less of that kind of rotten intrusion, fortunately. It's less tolerated now than it used to be.

Is being Pushed a lot of christian TV or radio programs?

No.....you can change channels. That's not a problem. It may be yucky if they are hysterical gasping-type preachers, or if they are crooked televangelists; most of these guys are dishonest, of course, just collecting money from people who aren't too bright. I think most people know that by now.

Or do you mean politically
Is being Pushed Christians defend traditional marriage?
Is being Pushed Christian defending the unborn?
Is being Pushed kids giving a prayer at his school graduation?
Is being Pushed a group of people questioning origin stories publicly?
Is being Pushed a Christian group protesting ANYTHING they believe? Or should they do it in a way that pleases everyone?

Well.........I agree with a lot of those items, but it is an effort of control. Nobody likes to be controlled by anyone with a drum to beat. Basically, people should probably mind their own business. Don't push religion on people who don't want it. I mean, that's the polite thing to do, right? People wanting to control others' religious beliefs leads very quickly to burning people at the stake because they don't believe we are eating Christ's meat when we take communion. And I would question allowing religion to take that kind of control. Religious control is a terrible, BAD thing: look at those creepy women in the black allover robes and veils with just their eyes showing. Horror show.

Should they just STHU and stay in Church? maybe there should be a law?

They should certainly just STFU and stay in Church; why not? It's really not up to them to convert other people!! Or to control other people.

None of the above IMO is pushy to the point of being a problem AT ALL. At worse it's an inconvenience or annoyance to some, to some it's offensive because they don't want to believe what the Bilbe says on various points.

No, that's wrong. You don't get to say what isn't a problem for me. If you come here to my home, you get kicked out, be sure: nothing requires me to listen to your intrusive, bullying preaching at the door to my home. Being pushy is wrong and immoral and Christians shouldn't do it. Look at the Muslims: they do it and they want to take over the world and force everyone to do what they say. So do Christians: but you should resist this temptation.

But you want to see pushy Go to a Muslim Country and try to become an atheist or Christian or Buddist and see what pushy really is. Same in Indian if you try to convert from a being a Hindu or even in some cases try to TALK to Hindus about conversion of becoming an Atheist. you might jail time or beaten in the street by a crowd. Ladies, try living in Saudi Arabia the way you live here, you'll see a pushy religion change your ways fast.

That's the thing: this is all bad, all terrible --- and it has for many centuries been just as bad when Christians do it.

if that's considered too Pushy, to bad. we care to much to shut up.

You are just too eager to control people to shut up. If all you wanted was to believe and lead Christian lives, that would be great. Intruding and controlling is not great.

[jimnyc]

I don't think anybody cares about the IDEA of God. If people believe in something and don't bother others about it, what's to resent? People can go sit on stylites in the desert and believe all they like, for all of me. As long as the taxpayer doesn't have to support them.

What people resent is intrusion and efforts to control them. Or replace their beliefs entirely, like the Muslims want to do.

Many, many, many get offended or get their panties in a bunch at the mere sight of anything religious, and 2x as much if it's Christianity.

[mundame]

Many, many, many get offended or get their panties in a bunch at the mere sight of anything religious, and 2x as much if it's Christianity.

Can you give a for-instance?

I don't mean creches in front of City Hall or prayers at graduation: those are religion/state issues that have lately stopped being winked at, fair enough, I suppose. As long as Muslims aren't allowed to prefer their religion either.

I mean non-constitutional religious stuff, and people getting offended?

[jimnyc]

Can you give a for-instance?

I don't mean creches in front of City Hall or prayers at graduation: those are religion/state issues that have lately stopped being winked at, fair enough, I suppose. As long as Muslims aren't allowed to prefer their religion either.

I mean non-constitutional religious stuff, and people getting offended?

Myself, I don't consider a kid mentioning God at a graduation to be the end of the world, or the state being involved. Same as for nativity scenes. I suppose some have a point if the government is paying for it, but what if it's 100% paid for by private donors? There was a place recently where a scene was on display every year for like a hundred years - no more. The park was a city park, and the funding didn't matter to those "offended". And then you have stores being condemned or boycotted of they dare use "Christmas" too often, as it may offend those that don't celebrate the holiday. Of course they need to watch the dollars, so they cave. Was it a military owned area? Honestly can't remember, but was fairly recently, where they were being told to remove a cross that remembered fallen soldiers. Can't have that!

Over the last 30 years or so it went from being something that was seen or heard everywhere, and now it's being told to occupy the proverbial closet that the gays came out of. It's ok still to be religious, just do so privately as not to offend anyone else.

[mundame]

Myself, I don't consider a kid mentioning God at a graduation to be the end of the world, or the state being involved. Same as for nativity scenes. I suppose some have a point if the government is paying for it, but what if it's 100% paid for by private donors? There was a place recently where a scene was on display every year for like a hundred years - no more. The park was a city park, and the funding didn't matter to those "offended". And then you have stores being condemned or boycotted of they dare use "Christmas" too often, as it may offend those that don't celebrate the holiday. Of course they need to watch the dollars, so they cave. Was it a military owned area? Honestly can't remember, but was fairly recently, where they were being told to remove a cross that remembered fallen soldiers. Can't have that!

Over the last 30 years or so it went from being something that was seen or heard everywhere, and now it's being told to occupy the proverbial closet that the gays came out of. It's ok still to be religious, just do so privately as not to offend anyone else.

I'd like everyone to do it privately and not offend anyone! And that includes Muslims. A black woman -- American, must have been a black Muslim -- came into the supermarket a few weeks ago, all clothed in black head to toe and one of those creepy veils with only her eyes showing! And two rude little boys telling me to get out of the way -- I suppose they'd been trained to disrespect women!! People ran from all over the store to get a look at her. Now, really, that's terrible. That goes too far. That's pushing religion way too far onto other people, IMO.

Basically, you are saying you don't agree with the church/state issues that have been backed off recently, because you are used to them and like them. However, they ARE church/state constitutional stuff, so we are all going to have to do without them.


Do you have stuff that people do that is NOT constitutional that you think offends people, but shouldn't?

Over the last 30 years or so it went from being something that was seen or heard everywhere, and now it's being told to occupy the proverbial closet that the gays came out of. It's ok still to be religious, just do so privately as not to offend anyone else.

To be fair, the Bible itself tells people to pray in their "closet," not right out showing off like those guys shouting mean stuff on the corner!

I think knocking on peoples' doors and haranguing them is pretty awful --- but of course the people doing that are mostly not Christians at all, Christians have gotten away from that sort of intrusion, very properly.

[jimnyc]

I'd like everyone to do it privately and not offend anyone! And that includes Muslims. A black woman -- American, must have been a black Muslim -- came into the supermarket a few weeks ago, all clothed in black head to toe and one of those creepy veils with only her eyes showing! And two rude little boys telling me to get out of the way -- I suppose they'd been trained to disrespect women!! People ran from all over the store to get a look at her. Now, really, that's terrible. That goes too far. That's pushing religion way too far onto other people, IMO.

Basically, you are saying you don't agree with the church/state issues that have been backed off recently, because you are used to them and like them. However, they ARE church/state constitutional stuff, so we are all going to have to do without them.


Do you have stuff that people do that is NOT constitutional that you think offends people, but shouldn't?

I don't have an issue as much if it's things in a state building, state sponsored and such. I don't see why others need to get "offended", but their being offended is backed by law.

Other than that, go to any restaurant or store during the holidays and find out how often you are greeted by "Merry Christmas" now as opposed to "Happy Holidays". This is done so as not to offend those not celebrating the holiday. Same for Christmas trees and such in stores and elsewhere, now gone or renamed to "Holiday Trees". The entire reasoning behind such changes is "so as not to offend others".

[jimnyc]

To be fair, the Bible itself tells people to pray in their "closet," not right out showing off like those guys shouting mean stuff on the corner!

I think knocking on peoples' doors and haranguing them is pretty awful --- but of course the people doing that are mostly not Christians at all, Christians have gotten away from that sort of intrusion, very properly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm FAR from one who thinks door to door preaching is OK. I don't condone that, from ANY religion.

[revelarts]

Don't get me wrong, I'm FAR from one who thinks door to door preaching is OK. I don't condone that, from ANY religion.

Should the window sales men or girl scouts stop to?
sorry if you don't like the content but it's not, illegal .. yet.

Why not just say no thanks you and let them go to the next house I really don't understand the issue you guys have.
If you don't believe it anyway at most it should be a minor inconvenience not a moral offense.

please help me here.

[jimnyc]

Should the window sales men or girl scouts stop to?
sorry if you don't like the content but it's not, illegal .. yet.

Why not just say no thanks you and let them go to the next house I really don't understand the issue you guys have.
If you don't believe it anyway at most it should be a minor inconvenience not a moral offense.

please help me here.

I guess selling something is selling something. Personally, I am less offended when a 10yr old girl shows up looking to sell some cookies, so they can get new uniforms - than I am when a grown man and woman show up, and try selling me religious beliefs. Maybe it's because the religion being brought to my door is a different religion? I don't know. And Fwiw - I am generally polite, and usually tell them I'm in the midst of dinner or something like that.

I am a Christian. I have no issue with any message being delivered. Sometimes I don't care for how it's delivered is all.

[gabosaurus]

Don't get me wrong, I'm FAR from one who thinks door to door preaching is OK. I don't condone that, from ANY religion.

My favorite door sign: "Unless you are selling Girl Scout cookies, we don't want anything."

Runner-up: "Dog strongly objects to preachers and peddlers. Knock at your own risk."

[Voted4Reagan]

Atheism is a Religion....

Atheists cant admit that their beliefs are just that....

Therefore... they are pure contradictions to their own teachings...

[revelarts]

They should certainly just STFU and stay in Church; why not? It's really not up to them to convert other people!! Or to control other people.


You are just too eager to control people to shut up. If all you wanted was to believe and lead Christian lives, that would be great. Intruding and controlling is not great.

So who wants to control who here?


and you just wrong mundame
Just to be clear, It is up to us Present the gospel to everyone, but God coverts them.

Mark 16:14-16

Jesus said


¹⁴ Last of all, Jesus appeared to the eleven disciples as they were eating. He scolded them, because they did not have faith and because they were too stubborn to believe those who had seen him alive. ¹⁵ He said to them, “Go throughout the whole world and preach the gospel to all people. ¹⁶ Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.



the corrupt Jewish leaders wanted the disciple to STHU too

Acts 5:28-30

²⁸ “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
²⁹ Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! ³⁰ The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross....
They called the apostles in and had them whipped. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

⁴¹ The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. ⁴² Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.



All of the prophets where told to STHU, all they did was go around and tell people that God was going to judge them if they didn't turn to him.


Our country for founded with free speech as a understood right. If you find some religious speech offends you , i'm sorry, it's not the intent.
But it's not going to stay inside the Churches because it upsets you.

[Abbey Marie]

...
Invitations are okay....assuming they aren't knocking on the door to do it. That would be wrong and pushy. The question is, who is it for? For you, to build up your church and your adherents, or for the person because you think they might like to join? If you are knocking on the door of a stranger's home, you are being intrusive and rude.
...

Doesn't seem any different to me than someone knocking on your door to sell a vacuum.
Annoying, perhaps. Intrusive and rude? Not really.

It is always odd to me how much people resent someone who is trying to tell them about salvation. Who is it hurting and how? Unless they are feeling a little nervous and/or guilty about their non-belief. Just like with my salesman example, you say "No thanks, I'm not interested" and carry on with your day.

ETA: Oops, just saw your post about the window salesman, Rev.

[mundame]

Doesn't seem any different to me than someone knocking on your door to sell a vacuum.
Annoying, perhaps. Intrusive and rude? Not really.

It is always odd to me how much people resent someone who is trying to tell them about salvation. Who is it hurting and how? Unless they are feeling a little nervous and/or guilty about their non-belief. Just like with my salesman example, you say "No thanks, I'm not interested" and carry on with your day.

ETA: Oops, just saw your post about the window salesman, Rev.

Some people are okay with door-to-door stuff --- I'm seriously not. Certainly not with people who have the gall to want to interfere with my beliefs!!!

And I don't think there ARE any door-to-door salesmen much anymore, are there? I think that went out in the 1970s, IIRC.

Now they have people waylaying shoppers at BJs warehouse foods, trying to sign them up for home repairs with quite hard-sale tactics. I positively eat them up: they creep up on me in dark aisles with no one else around, sometimes they are even black men, and boy, I've written letters, complained on site, on line, more than once yelled furiously and very loudly at them --- when someone scares me I get angry. I think I've made a change --- the last time I was there the guy with the clipboard was buttonholing only couples and carefully staying only in the middle areas that are well lighted. I think there is a lot less tolerance than there used to be for intrusive people coming at strangers to sell or persuade them of something. There is so much more stranger danger than there used to be. I really hate intrusiveness. Somebody else's religion does not excuse that sort of behavior. Again, with the exception of revelarts, I don't think Christians do that sort of thing nearly as much as some of these cults that are trying to build up.

How dare you call us Terrible?!!!!!!

The solution is simple. You don't knock on my door and try to convert me to a heretical cult with truly weird beliefs, and I won't have to call you terrible.

That's "you" plural. I recognize that you said you didn't do that sort of thing, and good for you.

[jimnyc]

Some people are okay with door-to-door stuff --- I'm seriously not. Certainly not with people who have the gall to want to interfere with my beliefs!!!

And I don't think there ARE any door-to-door salesmen much anymore, are there? I think that went out in the 1970s, IIRC.

Now they have people waylaying shoppers at BJs warehouse foods, trying to sign them up for home repairs with quite hard-sale tactics. I positively eat them up: they creep up on me in dark aisles with no one else around, sometimes they are even black men, and boy, I've written letters, complained on site, on line, more than once yelled furiously and very loudly at them --- when someone scares me I get angry. I think I've made a change --- the last time I was there the guy with the clipboard was buttonholing only couples and carefully staying only in the middle areas that are well lighted. I think there is a lot less tolerance than there used to be for intrusive people coming at strangers to sell or persuade them of something. There is so much more stranger danger than there used to be. I really hate intrusiveness. Somebody else's religion does not excuse that sort of behavior. Again, with the exception of revelarts, I don't think Christians do that sort of thing nearly as much as some of these cults that are trying to build up.

Is it less scary if it's a 5'2 little Asian?